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Banned from Kickstarter for Being a Stalking Victim

rachelmarone.com

91–100 of 236 posts

Re: Banned from Kickstarter for Being a Stalking Victim

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just got an email from Rachel: Jason, Rachel Marone here. You know it's me and valid because it's in italics, and that makes it true. Anyways, everything I posted on my blog is a lie. Just wanted to say that. Honestly, Rachel Marone Well, we can go home now.

It would be very odd indeed if kickstarter are in a position to deny the email quoted on Rachel's website. I.e. if it is as fake as the one above. That would be her throwing whatever reputation she has away. But I would be happier if they can confirm or deny it. No doubt they will be pressed to do so in the next few days, and a fuller picture will emerge.

> That would be her throwing whatever reputation she has away.

I'm not sure anything they say would make a difference. Personally, I inclined to believe what she's saying is true, but I believe there is more to the story that impacts what has been said already. Believing that, it would be unfair of me to suggest anything one way or the other.

Re: Banned from Kickstarter for Being a Stalking Victim

#92
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Kickstarter has an obligation to treat Rachel like a customer. I believe they are capable of building the tool needed to deliver a good experience to customers like Rachel. I don't support the specific language Rachel might have used, but I empathize with Rachel's frustration with Kickstarter's flawed process. I met Rachel a few months ago. She seems nice. I know she has all this weird unresolved drama from…

> No, it's utterly ridiculous to post evidence related to ongoing legal matters to the peanut gallery of the internet. Any lawyer or legal TV show will recommend against that. This is where you and I disagree. Regardless of real-world implications I consider it unethical to use the court of public opinion to court sympathy ("my stalker of 10 years..." "police are doing nothing...") and to trash companies you think ha…

DH3. http://paulgraham.com/disagree.html

Re: Banned from Kickstarter for Being a Stalking Victim

#93
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fix what? Going by what we know , someone has made a claim without anything to back it up. Should we encourage groundless accusations? I'd like to think members of HN would be a bit more intelligent about this sort of thing. Let's try to be a bit more rational about this and not just grab the torches and pitchforks.

"someone has made a claim without anything to back it up" that's true, but neither do any posts in HN. Shouldn't we try to get some attention from Kickstarter and see how it goes?

That's not true. There are many cases of posts coming to HN that have more than italicized text to make its case. We have someone here posting they know here, and indeed has a cyberstalker. That's a step in the right direction, a 3rd party providing information.

And I'm not suggesting, in any way, that KickStarter shouldn't respond (at this point, it would be insane not to).

What I am saying is that we shouldn't be assuming KickStarter is in the wrong at that this Rachel has been 100% honest and has told the complete story. That is all.

Re: Banned from Kickstarter for Being a Stalking Victim

#94
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, it's utterly ridiculous to post evidence related to ongoing legal matters to the peanut gallery of the internet. Any lawyer or legal TV show will recommend against that. This is where you and I disagree. Regardless of real-world implications I consider it unethical to use the court of public opinion to court sympathy ("my stalker of 10 years..." "police are doing nothing...") and to trash companies you think ha…

DH3. http://paulgraham.com/disagree.html

I don't understand. Care to explain further than that link?

Edit: don't bother. It's a needless deviation from the topic of conversation here and I disagree with your interpretation of that link anyway.

Re: Banned from Kickstarter for Being a Stalking Victim

#96
post #51

I'm going to chalk this one up to growing pains. Dealing with spam is a really difficult problem, especially in unusual cases like this. Their response definitely wasn't great, but if it was causing them a lot of trouble to keep up with the spam on that account, this might be a drain on their likely-small team and detrimental to everyone else using the site by taking their attention. This is a startup, not an enormou…

Yup. There's something ineffably hard about customer service. Ask Craig Newmark, who still does it full time. My company's most important competitive advantage is customer service. My secret to providing superior customer service is treating my customers like they are human beings. It works because my customers are in fact human beings. I think this works because I own the company and do some of my own support. You lose a human element when your customer support starts being done by unempowered minions that don't have incentives in place to treat customers like real people.

Re: Banned from Kickstarter for Being a Stalking Victim

#97
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused what exactly you're asking for. What kind of 'proof' would satisfy you? Screenshots of the original emails? I'm sure they could be spoofed. Screenshot of the page of comments? Same. Statements from other people who were backing her? Really, I don't understand what you're asking for. Edit: seems there's more to this story about the individual involved but that doesn't change anything about how Kickstarter…

Something more than italicized text. Yes, screenshots of the emails, with headers would be better. Something more than a mere rant. I'm not suggesting that anything displayed would hold up in court, but all anyone here seems to care about is italicized text. Here, let me demonstrate. amirmc, The post on my website is a lie. Truly, Rachel There. Case closed. > What kind of 'proof' would satisfy you? What kind of proof…

> What kind of proof would satisfy you? Italicized text? A blog post?

I try not to take any of these things as 'proof'. Also you say that "nothing has been offered up" which isn't true. Someone wrote a post and copy/pasted emails into it. Sure, you can question the veracity of the post but it isn't really fair to say that nothing was offered. It's just that what was offered doesn't seem sufficient to you (which is fine, btw. I'm not saying I believe it all just because of a blog post).

Yes, an accusation was made with some italicized text. People may be giving the OP the benefit of the doubt. You are not. Why aren't both of those ok? I doubt anyone here is going to start a picket outside Kickstarter's offices nor start flaming elsewhere on the net. They might post their displeasure at Kickstarter here.

Your issue isn't really with the post but how folks here seem to be reacting to it. I get that, but isn't it always going to be the case with David/Goliath-type stories?

If her story turns out to have any chinks in it then she'll lose all credibility with this crowd and if not, then Kickstarter should have something to say about it. In a couple of days this will have either been resolved, forgotten or a 'proper' news story (ie more than just a HN submission).

Edit: More downvotes? If I'm missing something please let me know what.

Re: Banned from Kickstarter for Being a Stalking Victim

#98
post #15

"If there is any chance that Rachel will receive spam from a stalker on her project, she should not create one." WTF. I'm sorry guys. If there is any chance your blog post may incite trolls or spammers please refrain from making that post. This makes no sense. Better response would be to try and work with the person and figure out some kind of solution. Sure banning people who attract spam works but in the long run i…

Yeah. If Rachel could have raised $100,000 on Kickstarter, Kickstarter would have made thousands in fees. They have a license to print money and they will leave more and more money on the table over time if they don't add basic moderation tools like requiring comments to be approved when necessary. This looks like a case that requires customer support from someone at Kickstarter that doesn't normally work as a customer service manager. I wonder when the Kickstarter founders stopped doing their own customer support.

Re: Banned from Kickstarter for Being a Stalking Victim

#99
The commenting here is interesting, as is the post. I have some general comments to make about cyberstalking and situations like this - but want to preface it with the disclaimer that I've never heard of Rachel before and cannot sit in any form of judgement on her.

However, I was cyberstalked (and then RL stalked & harassed), so I know that it sucks and it can be dangerous. I have no idea what Rachel's stalker has done - but from the context of the blog post it appears they troll her around the net.

Apparently alerting my backers about this was considered “engaging in conversation with the spammer.”

This is what sprung out at me from the post, as did her post on the topic [1] From that post:

(not to mention that thousands of people want him dead)

And this is probably the crux of the problem. Rising to stalkers is what feeds their ego - they pummel you into submission until you react emotionally and physically to their presence.

About the only way to get rid of a cyberstalker is to delete them and ignore them.

I'm going to be a bit critical here; she shouldn't have "engaged him" by warning her backers. (edit: it would be nice to know the extent of engagement - often once you do the one "this is a troll" post it is too easy to be dragged into an actual conversation with them). She should have talked to Kickstarter, explained the problem and worked out a solution. She probably should have done that before opening the project - knowing what might happen.

It sucks that she'd have to approach the project like that... but in my experience it's better to be pragmatic.

Cyberstalkers afflict people they can "get to" emotionally - and although it is, again, unfair, about the only way to resist them is to not let it affect you. This is how I eventually got rid of my cyberstalker (who "cracked" me in the first place by sending pictures of my friends with [digital] blood splattered over the top). Before I managed this, I totally rejected the idea it would work.

As to Kickstarter; I feel like they are in a catch 22 here. If they let the project sit and do their best to keep out the troll (which is difficult enough at times) it could flare up on them; Rachel's project could fail and this blog post could be titled "How Kickstarter couldn't keep my cyberstalker away", or it could attract press attention, or it could attract more trolls to Rachel. Plus then there is the human aspect - someone at Kickstarter is sat there seeing these horrid things being posted and thinking "wow, that must be really upsetting".

So they delete the project - which could have been handled better, admittedly. But probably the best thing in the long run.

1. http://experimenthaywire.net/is-there-a-solution-to-cybersta...

EDIT: posting Daniella's full name is rather unfortunate (as she makes a point of using it, it seems).

Re: Banned from Kickstarter for Being a Stalking Victim

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. Again, if the post is true, the requirement would be also for the person to then engage in a discussion with the spammer. We don't know the details regarding that, and will never know. If you are being harassed, report it. Not sure about you, but if I saw a spammer on my site, and saw two users discussing things back and forth behind the scenes, I might draw the conclusion they are in collusion. The OP is,…

It says a whole lot more than that: http://rachelmarone.com/sample-page/

I wonder if it's an artistic statement that her page touting web & counter-culture bona fides and general hot messiness still has the WP default title "sample-page." ;)

In all seriousness, getting banned sucks. 'The customer is always right' isn't a bad mentality to have even for startups, and even when the customer is the product.

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