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Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

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Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#221

Post by aleph_minus_one »

gred wrote: post #81
jerf wrote: post #70

If Microsoft backs off core Windows development, which it certainly seems like they are, this is what we'd expect to see... not a big bang where it suddenly stops working, but every year it'll just sort of fall a bit more behind Linux, until in 4 or 5 years the difference consensus will slowly just creep over to Windows being noticeably worse than Linux without any big bang switchover... and it'll sneak up on Microso…

Interesting thought, but you might be missing the hardware perspective. I switched from Windows to Linux this year, and the biggest issue has been drivers and hardware compatibility: audio available via headphones but not (laptop) built-in speakers, occasional display issues depending on the monitor setup, occasional WiFi issues. If hardware innovation stopped, Linux could catch up easily... but it won't, so there is…

> Perhaps the manufacturers will start to help out more and more on the Linux side too, as more users demand compatibility.

I do believe that manufacturers would be willing to help out if GNU/Linux was sufficiently standardized that they can simply drop some code/binary that works on basically every GNU/Linux distribution (just as they can basically do on Windows). The problem is that GNU/Linux is not some single operating system, but a proliferation of lots of different distributions.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#222

Post by unsungNovelty »

planede wrote: post #215
unsungNovelty wrote: post #204

Is it OK to just mention a common misconception which is still prelevant about Linux? Rolling releases provides STABLE verions of software/packages. It is NOT "bleeding edge" since it is NOT a development branch. It is the latest stable version provided by the upstream (developer/cretors of the software). Point release comes from a time where we didn't have continous development. We didn't have these faster updates.…

I find Debian unstable to be a perfectly stable rolling release distro. Unfortunate naming.

Yes. But unstable is Debian's repo. Unstable repo contains software packages which is tested against Debian. It doesn't mean instability of the software. But unstable against Debian. There is a huge misconception and misunderstanding regarding what these Stable/Testing/Unstable repos means. Unfortunate indeed.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#223

Post by blackoil »

fredgrott wrote: post #18

I just did a mind meld of what one needed to do to get a M3 performance wise through using NVIDIA and Intel chips... Take away a 13900 or 14000 intel CPU and an NVIDIA 4090 will give m3 performance...cheap ipower tower at best buy for $1800...see https://fredgrott.substack.com/p/beating-m3-in-a-flutter-dev... Had to figure out which way to go with the assumption that production app builds was through cloud...currentl…

Apple will not be value for money for desktops, especially if you need large RAM, disk. Top of the line Max won't beat mid range 40xx. For laptop though build quality, battery life screen etc. matter. I was looking for a personal desktop 6 months back, building an Intel based was no brainer. And now I can upgrade SSD/RAM and graphics as my need budget evolve.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#224

Post by wavemode »

gred wrote: post #81
jerf wrote: post #70

If Microsoft backs off core Windows development, which it certainly seems like they are, this is what we'd expect to see... not a big bang where it suddenly stops working, but every year it'll just sort of fall a bit more behind Linux, until in 4 or 5 years the difference consensus will slowly just creep over to Windows being noticeably worse than Linux without any big bang switchover... and it'll sneak up on Microso…

Interesting thought, but you might be missing the hardware perspective. I switched from Windows to Linux this year, and the biggest issue has been drivers and hardware compatibility: audio available via headphones but not (laptop) built-in speakers, occasional display issues depending on the monitor setup, occasional WiFi issues. If hardware innovation stopped, Linux could catch up easily... but it won't, so there is…

While I agree with you broadly that hardware support is a problem for less popular operation systems, I can personally say that Fedora has been a dream for me, hardware-wise, for a while now. My 7900XT GPU just works. My printer just works. My webcam just works. My headset just works. My audio interface just works (the audio I/O, at least - I haven't actually ever tested the MIDI I/O).

I'm certain I've gotten lucky, and I'm certain there's plenty of edge cases to be ironed out, especially with more specialized hardware. But I think a lot of common consumer goods are in a good place right now, at least in my personal experience.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#225

Post by bryanlarsen »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #179
phpisthebest wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft should invest in Proton, make Windows apps work seamless on linux, and then just make a "Windows" replacement for Wayland that runs on Kernel... Then, and only then, will we have "The year of the linux desktop"

I mean, this is actually backwards from a pure engineering POV from what would be actually excellent. The core Windows NT kernel is quite excellent, and was always in some ways far superior to what Unix offered. E.g. proper asynchronous I/O from day one. Dave Cutler and crew did a bang-up job. Linux is only getting competitive things like io_uring now(ish). The problem was the shitty API and user space they papered i…

Does a poor filesystem count as part of the kernel? In my experience, Windows file systems are the main source of Windows underperformance.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#226

Post by geodel »

johnbellone wrote: post #95
underseacables wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 11 should be classified as a hate crime.. Just the fact that I'm deceitfully "required" to create a Microsoft just to use the system is an abomination. On some systems, I've seen that there is a way to bypass that account creation, and just have a local account, but it was so hidden and deceitful that it was… emotional..

This isn't any different than being "required" to create an Apple account. I agree that it is a problem that both systems make you jump through hoops to use them without doing that, but it doesn't seem to elicit the same emotions that come from it being Microsoft. They're both trillion dollar companies that only care about keeping you in their walled garden.

As both Windows/Mac user Windows seems way more aggressive with have this online account. I don't know its got that kind of hectoring tone. Well you've been stalling for 2 months and now its time to have login created.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#227

Post by katsura »

unsungNovelty wrote: post #186
katsura wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arch can be made easier if you use Manjaro[0], for example. I used Manjaro for years before switching to Mac, and it was rock stable. I had Timeshift[1] installed and set up to be able to roll back just in case I messed something up. In general though, I never felt like I had to mess around with the terminal and a bunch of commands, only if I really wanted to. [0] https://manjaro.org/ [1] https://github.com/linuxmint…

I used Manjaro for years before moving to Arch Linux myself. Manjaro broke their 2 weeks testing cycle promise. It used to be stable. Then they started cherry picking systemd and kde directly from upstream instead of the traditional Arch stable repo -> Manjaro unstable -> Manjaro testing -> Manjaro stable cycle for a package. Things started breaking and they were hostile to the community which resulted in a new forum…

Thank you for the detailed explanation! I didn't know about any of that. I either got "lucky" and switched to Mac before all these happened, or just didn't pay enough attention to see these changes.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#228

Post by sandworm101 »

hannofcart wrote: post #210
jerf wrote: post #70

If Microsoft backs off core Windows development, which it certainly seems like they are, this is what we'd expect to see... not a big bang where it suddenly stops working, but every year it'll just sort of fall a bit more behind Linux, until in 4 or 5 years the difference consensus will slowly just creep over to Windows being noticeably worse than Linux without any big bang switchover... and it'll sneak up on Microso…

> To be honest, Linux as a desktop environment is already more usable than many people realize. This will be true once the stability of graphics drivers on Linux improves. On every major kernel update, I am always bracing for everything going blank because of driver issues.

That was my experience too, but a decade ago while running NVidia+Intel hardware. Since switching to AMD+AMD my home machines have only run into the issue once or twice, and then only when running something odd like multiple graphics cards.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#229

Post by cmrdporcupine »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #225
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, this is actually backwards from a pure engineering POV from what would be actually excellent. The core Windows NT kernel is quite excellent, and was always in some ways far superior to what Unix offered. E.g. proper asynchronous I/O from day one. Dave Cutler and crew did a bang-up job. Linux is only getting competitive things like io_uring now(ish). The problem was the shitty API and user space they papered i…

Does a poor filesystem count as part of the kernel? In my experience, Windows file systems are the main source of Windows underperformance.

Funny, I just went back and edited my comment to add in filesystem where I didn't have it before and then saw your reply.

Because, yes, NTFS is just slow as hell. I have never been clear why but as I said elsewhere, various *nix filesystems have always outperformed it. I understand that on paper NTFS was technically superior back when Linux was stuck with ext2 & ext3 as standard, but in practice it just made for a really slow system.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#230

Post by aleph_minus_one »

anthk wrote: post #195
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Microsoft backs off core Windows development, which it certainly seems like they are, this is what we'd expect to see... If this is really true, I am deeply saddened. I grew up using almost entirely nothing but Windows since 98, and have used every version (except Windows Me) since. As a desktop and enterprise OS, Windows is pretty fantastic to develop with, natively , contrary to many opinions here. Technologie…

Linux supports ACL's, too, but they are not enabled by default. On plug and play, Linux won by a mile by default, as the kernel has much better support than Windows 10 which often has to connect itself to Windows Update. On COM/.Net, today almost nobody cares. Modern ad-hoc built small-medium Corporateware it's bound to Java as a Hellish curse, and on the rest of the maket here just Direct3D matters; but not as much…

> On COM/.Net, today almost nobody cares.

Lots of LoB applications in various industries are still developed using .NET (even for new developments).

> Also, on the enterprise, most people it's migrating to Unix backends and web frontends for lots of tasks.

Not for every task, web applications are a good choice (which is why lots of new LoB applications in enterprise are still developed as Windows desktop applications).

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