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Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

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Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#211

Post by wing-_-nuts »

unsungNovelty wrote: post #171
jorvi wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arch is terrible due to their bare testing package release policy. Generally accepted recommends: - Windows converts: Mint - General: Fedora / PopOS - Rolling: Suse Tumbleweed - Config fanatics: Nix - Minimalistic fanatics: Void / Alpine

> Arch is terrible due to their bare testing package release policy. It is NOT. This is biggest mystery I have about people's perception about Arch Linux. Arch provides latest upstream stable packages unlike point releases. NOT developer branches of packages BUT STABLE versions of package as soon as it is available. Point releases like ubuntu gives you old versions of software. And backport security patches against t…

Not who you're replying to but I'm sorry, he's right.

The GRUB incident last summer was the last straw for me. I found myself with an unbootable system. The r/arch sub was radio silent. r/EndevourOs posted a sticky about the grub issue. On researching it more, they were using a build of grub off master (not even a release!). When I asked an arch dev if he thought it was appropriate to do that given he'd just left thousands of people without a bootable system, he dismissed me with something to the effect of 'If you can't repair your bootloader maybe you should use an easier distribution'

You know what? I agreed with him. I formatted my laptop and installed PopOs and it's been really nice running a system where the devs actually seem to care about stability.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#212

Post by [deleted] »

twoodfin wrote: post #111

Why wouldn’t the first assumption be that the bulk of these differences arise from compiler and runtime library (memcpy, etc.) efficiency distinctions rather than the OS? I appreciate that to the end user it doesn’t matter which parts of the stack are better tuned, but framing this as “Windows vs. Linux” seems unjustified without more evidence.

[deleted]

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#213

Post by planede »

hannofcart wrote: post #210
jerf wrote: post #70

If Microsoft backs off core Windows development, which it certainly seems like they are, this is what we'd expect to see... not a big bang where it suddenly stops working, but every year it'll just sort of fall a bit more behind Linux, until in 4 or 5 years the difference consensus will slowly just creep over to Windows being noticeably worse than Linux without any big bang switchover... and it'll sneak up on Microso…

> To be honest, Linux as a desktop environment is already more usable than many people realize. This will be true once the stability of graphics drivers on Linux improves. On every major kernel update, I am always bracing for everything going blank because of driver issues.

Apart from Nvidia, this feels like a non-issue for me nowadays.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#214

Post by delta_p_delta_x »

phpisthebest wrote: post #73
jerf wrote: post #70

If Microsoft backs off core Windows development, which it certainly seems like they are, this is what we'd expect to see... not a big bang where it suddenly stops working, but every year it'll just sort of fall a bit more behind Linux, until in 4 or 5 years the difference consensus will slowly just creep over to Windows being noticeably worse than Linux without any big bang switchover... and it'll sneak up on Microso…

Microsoft should invest in Proton, make Windows apps work seamless on linux, and then just make a "Windows" replacement for Wayland that runs on Kernel... Then, and only then, will we have "The year of the linux desktop"

I really dunno why people advocate ripping out the kernel and using Linux instead, while keeping Windows userspace. The NT kernel is the best part of Windows. It has built-in asynchronous real-time I/O. A completely plug-and-play driver model. Far more advanced permissions model. It is far ahead of the competition.

The userspace and UI of Windows is very straightforwardly modified; that's why it has changed so much every iteration of Windows. Telling people that we should keep 'Windows apps' and then rip out the kernel and use the Linux kernel instead is like saying one has a small rash, let's do chemotherapy. It is breaking a fly with a wheel.

I want to go back to the Windows 2000-era UI, with the same advancements in the kernel and core Windows technologies we have today.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#215

Post by planede »

unsungNovelty wrote: post #204

Is it OK to just mention a common misconception which is still prelevant about Linux? Rolling releases provides STABLE verions of software/packages. It is NOT "bleeding edge" since it is NOT a development branch. It is the latest stable version provided by the upstream (developer/cretors of the software). Point release comes from a time where we didn't have continous development. We didn't have these faster updates.…

I find Debian unstable to be a perfectly stable rolling release distro. Unfortunate naming.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#216

Post by partitioned »

planede wrote: post #213
hannofcart wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be honest, Linux as a desktop environment is already more usable than many people realize. This will be true once the stability of graphics drivers on Linux improves. On every major kernel update, I am always bracing for everything going blank because of driver issues.

Apart from Nvidia, this feels like a non-issue for me nowadays.

"Apart from a majority of graphics cards it's a non-issue"

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#217

Post by delta_p_delta_x »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #179
phpisthebest wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft should invest in Proton, make Windows apps work seamless on linux, and then just make a "Windows" replacement for Wayland that runs on Kernel... Then, and only then, will we have "The year of the linux desktop"

I mean, this is actually backwards from a pure engineering POV from what would be actually excellent. The core Windows NT kernel is quite excellent, and was always in some ways far superior to what Unix offered. E.g. proper asynchronous I/O from day one. Dave Cutler and crew did a bang-up job. Linux is only getting competitive things like io_uring now(ish). The problem was the shitty API and user space they papered i…

> Anyways, I think it would be a shame if MS gave up on the NT kernel.

I can't say this more. The NT kernel is really the best part of Windows. Almost everything that people complain about in Windows 11 is in the userspace. Start menu nerfed? Right-click menu hidden? Settings versus Control Panel? Cortana, Copilot? There's nothing in the kernel or lower-level OS constructs that require any of these.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#218

Post by rcfox »

planede wrote: post #213
hannofcart wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be honest, Linux as a desktop environment is already more usable than many people realize. This will be true once the stability of graphics drivers on Linux improves. On every major kernel update, I am always bracing for everything going blank because of driver issues.

Apart from Nvidia, this feels like a non-issue for me nowadays.

Unfortunately, Nvidia has ~87% of the market share of discrete GPUs.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#219

Post by geodel »

calamari4065 wrote: post #140
gred wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting thought, but you might be missing the hardware perspective. I switched from Windows to Linux this year, and the biggest issue has been drivers and hardware compatibility: audio available via headphones but not (laptop) built-in speakers, occasional display issues depending on the monitor setup, occasional WiFi issues. If hardware innovation stopped, Linux could catch up easily... but it won't, so there is…

I've had a much worse time with hardware on windows than Linux these last couple of years. My work laptop runs Windows and will get stuck in a BSPD bootloop if I turn it on with external monitors connected. My USB keyboard and mouse disconnect every few minutes. Windows may as well not even have Bluetooth for as well as it works. Some devices always show as connected, despite not being present. I have to un-pair my h…

>I've had a much worse time with hardware on windows than Linux these last couple of years.

I don't doubt that as I have had same experience. But somehow Windows has to get worse from non-technical users' perspective to be real trouble for Microsoft. So far my spouse still find think Windows is the normal thing despite using rather trouble-free, fast Mac at home for many years along with horribly slow and problematic Windows laptop provided by employer.

So even with their own first-hand experience with Windows problems they consider Linux or Mac difficult/exotic thing.

Re: Ubuntu squeezes more performance than Windows 11 on new AMD Zen 4 Threadripper

#220

Post by alentred »

In the context of Linux adoption on the desktop it is not big news, unfortunately. To my mind, overall end-user experience is already better in Linux compared to Windows where similar tasks are more complicated, even before the raw performance starts to matter.

Better performance would be a prerequisite indeed - no one wants to move a slower OS - but then there must be other convincing reasons to drive the desktop user adoption. And no roadblocks.

Edit: sorry, rephrased a lot, but the core idea is hopefully the same.

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