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Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

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Re: Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

#921

Post by killerstorm »

tempusalaria wrote: post #637
icyfox wrote: post #488

This will be an interesting test to see how fast you can bootstrap GPT-4 level performance with unlimited funds and talent that already has deep knowledge of the internals. With the initial adoption of ChatGPT alongside Copilot, OpenAI's data moat of crawled data & RLHF is pretty vast. And that's not leaving the walled garden of OpenAI. You can simulate a lot of this using other off-the-shelf LLMs (see Alpaca) but no…

Many of OpenAIs most talented people left to start Anthropic. They have billions in funding and have not yet got particularly close to GPT-4. I think that illustrates it will be a be a big uphill battle for any new entrant no matter how well funded or resourced.

> They have billions in funding and have not yet got particularly close to GPT-4.

Wrong. Claude 2 beats GPT-4 is some benchmarks (e.g. HumanEval Python coding; math; analytical writing.). It's close enough. It doesn't matter who holds the crown this week, Anthropic definitely has ingredients to make GPT-4-class model.

This is like comparing similar cars from BMW and Toyota, finding few specific parameters where BMW has a higher score and saying "You see? Toyota engineering is nowhere close".

This actually shows Sam Altman's true contribution: the free version of ChatGPT is undeniably worse than Bing Chat, and yet ChatGPT is a bigger brand.

(And it might be a deliberate choice to save money for Claude 3 instead instead of making Claude 2 absolutely SotA.)

Re: Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

#922

Post by joenot443 »

bmitc wrote: post #757
belugacat wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a big deal because he’s extremely charismatic and well connected and that matters much, much more for a tech company’s success than some programmers like to think.

I have watched him speak, and he doesn't seem charismatic at all. I remember hearing the same things about Sam Bankman-Fried and then going and watching his interviews and feeling the same. There is just a giant gap here where I simply do not get it, and I see no evidence that explains me not getting it is missing some key aspect of all this. This just seems like classic cargo cult, cult of personality, and following…

Surely you can understand that the persona one presents while giving a speech is often entirely different from the one they assume in private? I figured you knew him personally, this is a pretty funny justification.

If your analysis is based solely off YouTube interviews, I think your perspective on Sam’s capabilities and personality is going to be pretty surface level and uninteresting.

Re: Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

#923

Post by mcv »

sage76 wrote: post #911
mcv wrote: post #837

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He has a better chance than some other random guy who was not the CEO of OpenAI. Yes, but that doesn't mean it's enough. Not every random guy who wasn't the CEO of OpenAI is about to start an AI company (though some probably are). It's quite possible an AI company does need a better vision than "hire some engineers and have them make AI".

> It's quite possible an AI company does need a better vision than "hire some engineers and have them make AI". Seems like all these "business guys" think that's all it takes.

They often do. That doesn't make them right. There's probably going to be a massive AI bubble similar to what we've seen with cryptocurrencies and NFTs, and after that bubble pops, AI will probably end up discredited for a decade before it picks up again. It's happened before.

Re: Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

#924

Post by feraloink »

bmitc wrote: post #709
jmerz wrote: post #699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he's not as known in the outside world but it's really difficult to understate the amount of social capital sama has in the inner circles of Silicon Valley. It sounds like he did a good job instilling loyalty as a CEO as well, but the SV thing means that the more connected someone at the company is to the SV ecosystem, the more likely they like him/want to be on his good side. This is kind of like the leaders…

So it's a big deal because he has a cult of personality?

Yes. Well, it seems like it to me.

Here's more about Justin.tv the new interim CEO. It isn't paywalled. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/20/who-is-emmett-shear-the-new-...

Re: Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

#925

Post by feraloink »

Solvency wrote: post #817
belugacat wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a big deal because he’s extremely charismatic and well connected and that matters much, much more for a tech company’s success than some programmers like to think.

What am I missing here: Sam Altman has zero charisma or cool factor. Every talk I've seen him in, he comes off as lethargic and sluggish. I get zero sense of passion or rallying drive around the hype of AI from him. He's not an AI visionary. He's not a hype man. He simply "is", and just because he happens to have been the CEO he's been thrust into the spotlight, but there's literally nothing interesting about him.

Agreed. I like your adjectives of lethargic and sluggish. I have read all the responses to you and a few others who made a similar observation. I remain unconvinced about what is so essential about Sam Altman to OpenAI. I just don't get it.

Re: Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

#926

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

ahartmetz wrote: post #697
tempusalaria wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole situation should make it clear that SV media is beholden to VCs and will print anything they tell them to. Bloomberg, the verge and the information all went to bat for Altman in a big way on this.

My favorite was that part from Financial Times: "Investors were hoping that Altman would return to a company “which has been his life's work”" As opposed to Sutskever, who they found on the street somehow, yeah?

I mean, both of them were involved from the beginning of OpenAI.

Re: Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

#927

Post by ruszki »

dmix wrote: post #871
ssnistfajen wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on Andrej Karpathy's comment on Twitter today, the board never explained any of this to the staff. So siding with Altman seems like a far better option since his return would mean a much higher likelihood of continuing business as usual. If Ilya & co. want the staff to side with them, they have to give a reason first. It doesn't necessarily have to be convincing, but not giving a reason at all will never be con…

And the new CEO wants to slow down AI development and is a Yudkowsky fan which is another incentive to leave https://x.com/drtechlash/status/1726507930026139651?s=46&t=

Making AI models safer is a type of AI development.

Re: Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

#928

Post by ruszki »

ric2b wrote: post #897
lucubratory wrote: post #851

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very short and explains exactly what they want: https://openai.com/charter I think it's pretty obvious after reading it why people who were really committed to that Charter weren't happy with the direction that Sam was taking the company.

It doesn't sound obvious to me, can you clarify on what Sam was doing that went against the charter?

Looking on Windows 11 and Copilot, it’s easy to see that Microsoft deal violates “Broadly distributed benefits” on some level. But of course, who knows without an official statement.

Re: Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

#929

Post by dragontamer »

bmitc wrote: post #785
jstummbillig wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so confused by how this question is asked, and the reactions. It's "such a big deal" because he has been leading the company, and apparently some people really like how and they really don't like how it ended. Why would it require any other explanation? Are you asking what leaders do and why an employee would care about what they do...?

Do you understand why he was fired? The company had a charter, one the board is to help uphold. Altman and his crew were leading the company, and seemingly its employees, away from that charter. He was not open about how he was doing that. The board fired him. This is like a bunch of people joining a basketball team where the coach starts turning it into a soccer team, and then the GM fires the coach for doing this a…

> Do you understand why he was fired?

Wrong question. From the behavior of the board this weekend, it seems like the question is more "Do you understand how he was fired?".

IE: Immediately, on a Friday before Market close, before informing close partners (like Microsoft with 49% stake).

The "why" can be correct, but if the "how" is wrong that's even worse in some regards. It means that the board's thinking process is wrong and they'll likely make poor decisions in the future.

I don't know much about Sam Altman, but the behavior of the board was closer to a huge scandal. I was expecting news of some crazy misdeed of some kind, not just a simple misalignment with values.

Under these misalignment scenarios, you'd expect a stern talking to, and then a forced resignation over a few months. Not an immediate firing / removal. During this time, you'd inform Microsoft (and other partners) of the decision to get everyone on the same page, so it all elegantly resolves.

EDIT: And mind you, I don't even think the "why" has been well explained this weekend. That's part of the reason why "how" is important, to make sure the "why" gets explained clearly to everyone.

Re: Emmett Shear becomes interim OpenAI CEO as Altman talks break down

#930

Post by ruszki »

tim333 wrote: post #900
bmitc wrote: post #592

Through all of this, no one has cogently explained why Altman leaving is such a big deal. Why would workers immediately quit their job when he has no other company, and does he even know who these workers are? Are these people that desperate to make a buck (or the prospect of big bucks)? It seems like half of the people working at the non-profit were not actually concerned about the mission but rather just waiting ou…

Jessica Livingston's tweet may give some idea: >The reason I was a founding donor to OpenAI in 2015 was not because I was interested in AI, but because I believed in Sam. So I hope the board can get its act together and bring Sam and Greg back. I guess other people joined for similar reasons. As regards the 'strange and disturbing' support, personally I thought OpenAI was doing cool stuff and it was a shame to break…

This is classic startup PR nonsense. They just fear change for obvious reasons. It doesn’t mean that they will leave if OpenAI can work without Altman.
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