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Gang crisis shaking Sweden

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331–340 of 384 posts

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#331
post #144

I suspect anyone who wants to address the elephant in the room here will have to choose between accepting support from semi-fascist types or getting cancelled

I suspect you haven't even begun to think your comment out. The idea that someone who does not presumably know the language, culture, or even where all the landmarks of a city/nation are suddenly start running organized crime is deeply mistaken and does not even track with the most well-known syndicates such as the mafia (1920s in NY compared to 1880s enmasse arrival of Italians) or cartels ("homegrown"). Look deeper…

Some other notes:

This graph, in the financial times article about immigration, indicates 5. 5 deaths per million. The growth is horrible and yet the reality is nothing like the one being lived in by the US. Most hackernews posters often post about gun violence in the US as being something necessary to address and also simultaneously something that does not impact their day to day decisions around errands like the grocery or activities like music festivals or conferences.

Just to put things in perspective, deaths by firearm are around 60 per million in the US, twelve times the Swedish figure.

Further, as every greying country attempts to use immigration to grow a declining population, some flavor of this comment will negatively impact their efforts:

“Swedes make you feel foreign even when you have the passport, even my kids who were born here,” he says. “They blame immigrants for everything. But this gang violence affects me, my family, my friends as well."

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#332
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why it is so controversial. * A region with instability, poverty and agrarian-tribo-rural-economy will imprint emergent traits onto the local culture. * Long ossified culture cannot be shed quickly even in the best of conditions * Agrarian tribal cultural practices are incompatible with hyper-liberal secular society. Integration is the only option. * Integration is hard. Even more so when it is optional, gen…

> The US also heavily vets its immigrants (unlike Sweden) and places the most oppressive integration-force-field second only to France. The air you breathe (Media), the carrot (The American dream) and the stick (the English language) all perfectly align to facilitate integration of the 2nd generation born into the US. Most of America's immigration comes from the southern border and is completely unvetted. Your though…

Unvetted, probably, sure, but culturally similar.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#333
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pewresearch.org and FT are using different gun deaths definitions. Compare France. Gun death rate in France is 27 per million. Death from assault by firearm in France is 2 per million. To compare the US to Sweden we need rate of death from assault by firearm for the US.

what is the difference between the two definitions ? btw, we've somehow been back-watered here on the site. I can't even find this thread in my profile, and it's only shown on the main page for this comment as a part of another thread. Hackernews has gotten weird lately.

pewresearch.org numbers are off, it claims the US total gun deaths including suicides is only 4 times of France. Deaths by police and military seems very low.

This thread is collapsed by default, but I can still see it.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you offer some specifics? In what parts of Swedish society is this degradation most acute?

I’m really curious how about how good it used to be? It feels to me like there’s a cultural resistance to be self critical of the whole, and that is slowing down wide-scale progress. I moved to Sweden 2 months ago (from Seattle, where I grew up) but over the last decade I’ve lived in Seoul, Singapore, Bangkok, and Reykjavik. The government here feels most similar to the US, worse in some ways. Paperwork is like a hob…

Is n26 an option? A newcomer should be able to get a German account pretty easily from them, and with SEPA it doesn't matter which country your IBAN is in. Or is the currency an issue?

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#335
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I think the key think to understand here is that it's not about genetics, despite what idiots keep harping on. We're all apes and a random individual transplanted in another group after birth will quickly start accumulating cultural traits from that group. That said, culture is strong and it's even stronger in the internet era, especially for large groups of individuals. It's extremely hard to bend or break it.…

I think that if you had a specific and defensible point about immigration policy you would have put it here. What you actually put takes great care to be so indirect that you cannot even be identified as having a specific position, let alone one that can be discussed in a rational way. Given the number of words you spent on it I'd guess that means it's either unserious or unsavory, and don't really care to parse whic…

Read the book. The conclusion is very "unsavory" for the target group. "Unsavory" in the sense that it's a very harsh conclusion that unfortunately matches many stereotypes.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to question religious values and religions themselves then you're going to have to start by planning something that will take decades Exactly why we need to start that process now. I'm not saying we should treat all immigrants as terrorists or anything, I'm just saying that we should recognize that a large influx of people who don't share Western values is a danger to western society and we need to thin…

You'll need an ironclad definition of what Western values are and what a western society is and then you'll have to first go after everything that is homegrown that is also against those values. Ironically you'll find a ton of domestic parties that would like nothing better than to destroy their own select set of those. And then there is the little problem that Western values and society are still so young that they…

To continue the hiring analogy it's better to have a few false negatives in order to avoid a false positive.

Not saying it's straightforward or anything, just that we probably need to put more effort into carving out an immigration policy as well as refining the "onboarding" process of immigrants.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#337
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That charts paints a rather skewed picture by only focusing on firearms rather than murder overall. This is not a bad thing to highlight, but you should absolutely not confuse the two. Looking at [1], murder rate in Slovakia is comparable, and Hungary only slightly lower. Sweden isn't even near the top murder rate in the EU, and a number of other countries which accepted a large number of refugees have lower murder r…

When discussing a topic like gang violence why would you focus on the general societal homicide rate unless gang homicide's execution mirrored that of the society at large? The only useful attribute of your approach seems to be that it downplays the severity of what's being measured at a glance. The ranked approach is also strange considering that the obvious point of interest for most people would be whether the gan…

The problem is that "gang homicide" is not a statistic that is generally recorded, and is difficult and error prone to record.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#338
post #100
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can’t they be deported to the country the came from?

Unwillingness by the country of origin [0]. Possibly because they don't want another mouth to fed or are hoping for compensation. [0] in last part: https://www.dw.com/en/migration-germany-to-deport-rejected-a...

Honestly, tough shit, they should be required to take them back.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#339
post #103
post #16

Good thing that plot didn't show the US on it. Firearm deaths are more than 6x higher than any other at ~30pm annually.

There is, indeed, many gangs in the US, who drive the crime stats up.

It's majority suicides.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-...

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#340
post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US also heavily vets its immigrants (unlike Sweden) and places the most oppressive integration-force-field second only to France. The air you breathe (Media), the carrot (The American dream) and the stick (the English language) all perfectly align to facilitate integration of the 2nd generation born into the US. Most of America's immigration comes from the southern border and is completely unvetted. Your though…

The rise of massive Hispanic immigration to the US is fairly recent [1] About 25% of USA's immigration is as a result of unvetted immigrants from the south [2]. It is still a minority. The majority come here through family (pre-integrated) or for work (high bar for productivity). Also, Mexico is not the same as war torn middle-east. Mexicans are already culturally aligned (Christianity), ethnically aligned (massive w…

You isolated Mexico for some reason. Your source cites 50% for Mexico and other Latin American countries. Also, while it is true that there is significant (Southern) European admixture in Mexico, it is much less represented among those who come to America.
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