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Starship Integrated Flight Test 2 at 7 Am Central Time

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Re: Starship Integrated Flight Test 2 at 7 Am Central Time

#191

Post by Podgajski »

dotnet00 wrote: post #170
Podgajski wrote: post #74

[flagged]

I get that this forum is full of "nothing ever happens" types who can't tolerate any optimism and imperfection, but lol this is a whole other level.

It’s not about being an optimist, it’s about being a realist. And it’s not about the imperfection it’s about celebrating failure. It’s about being humble. It’s about having humility. It’s about knowing what you’re doing is only changing the lives of a very, very small segment of the human population. It’s about knowing that what you’re doing, was made from money, stolen from workers, and from a corrupt financial system.

Re: Starship Integrated Flight Test 2 at 7 Am Central Time

#192

Post by DarmokJalad1701 »

Podgajski wrote: post #119
DarmokJalad1701 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were people suffering when Sputnik launched, or when Apollo 11 landed on the moon. It doesn't reduce the magnitude of the event. Sorry for whatever you are going through, though. Hope you get through it.

That was my point, you talk about new eras, but nothing changes. Who is this new for? You, me, or the billionaires who make lives like mine horrible? It’s all spectacle, and where will it all lead? We landed men on the moon, and haven’t been back. What is SpaceX going to use for going to Mars? Are you gonna be the one that’s going or are they gonna leave you behind to rot here on this burning planet?

You would have said the same thing about airplanes at the turn of the 20th century and dismissed them as fads for rich people. Or about computers. Or the internet. And yet here you are.

> you talk about new eras, but nothing changes.

And yes, it does affect my life. I have dreamed my whole life of this stuff happening. After growing up in a "third world" country, I navigated the byzantine US immigration system, went through a decade+ of training, to finally be here and working at a new-space company right at the beginning of this new space age. The industry that I am working at right now would be in a completely different place (and a lot smaller) without SpaceX. It also wouldn't exist without the advances made for Apollo and the Space Shuttle program.

> What is SpaceX going to use for going to Mars?

Starship probably.

> Are you gonna be the one that’s going

Maybe. There is a non-zero chance now that the system that will achieve it is that much closer to being operational. You are missing the step change in cost that this will enable.

> or are they gonna leave you behind to rot here on this burning planet

It does not have to be one or the other. The "burning planet" will be solved just like we solved every other challenge facing our species.

You are obviously going through some stuff and seem to be in place where you cannot appreciate the good things that are happening in this world. But that does not change the fact that they are.

Re: Starship Integrated Flight Test 2 at 7 Am Central Time

#193

Post by fallingknife »

secstate wrote: post #142
KennyBlanken wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both the booster and ship have been destroyed. SpaceX can keep claiming these RUDs are 'fine' and 'we're getting data', but the rest of the industry does not consider it normal or a "success." Hotstaging didn't "work" until they can demonstrate the Starship vehicle survives orbital insertion, re-entry, and landing without damage or malfunction caused by the hotstaging.

I'm not totally sure Space X cares what the rest of the industry thinks. This is next-level space engineering compared to what's come before. Who's opinions are we concerned about? ULA? Arianespace? Those companies can't even blow up a space craft successfully because they can't launch them (see, SLS, Ariane 6).

I'm totally sure that SpaceX does not care what the rest of the industry (what's left of it) thinks.

Re: Starship Integrated Flight Test 2 at 7 Am Central Time

#194

Post by idlewords »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #167
idlewords wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need to redesign the bottom half of the rocket so it doesn't blow up during staging, and figure out what happened to the top half and fix that.

They don't necessarily have to redesign the booster. The booster completed its primary mission of boosting successfully. It survived long enough that it seems reasonable to say that if they wouldn't have attempted boost back it would successfully coasted to a splash in the ocean. So the SuperHeavy booster can likely be used as is, if they're willing to spend an extra ~$50M per mission on not recover the booster.

I guess it depends on the test program priorities. If Elon has promised everyone a succulent ham if they can get Starship to orbit before some deadline, then you're absolutely right. If instead they want to get the most out of every flight test, then they'll take the time to fly a fix for the "bottom half blows up" issue.

Re: Starship Integrated Flight Test 2 at 7 Am Central Time

#195

Post by KennyBlanken »

chpatrick wrote: post #153
Podgajski wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was my point, you talk about new eras, but nothing changes. Who is this new for? You, me, or the billionaires who make lives like mine horrible? It’s all spectacle, and where will it all lead? We landed men on the moon, and haven’t been back. What is SpaceX going to use for going to Mars? Are you gonna be the one that’s going or are they gonna leave you behind to rot here on this burning planet?

Mars is a horrible place to live so I'll take Earth any day. But it would be nice if humanity doesn't get wiped out if we get unlucky with an asteroid.

In the meantime, we're already well into ecological collapse (I think we've lost something like 3/4s of the earth's species?) and existential-threat-level climate change which in fifty years or so will be so bad we'll be dealing with near constant humanitarian crises...with no sign of improvement on either front. Decarbonization isn't happening nearly fast enough and industrial pollution is chugging along.

Frankly, I don't see human society surviving long enough - or perhaps better put, maintaining a necessary level of societal development - for us to develop the tech to establish a self-sufficient colony capable of independent growth and to get us to a planet with the resources to make such a thing possible.

It's hard to make rocket parts when everyone is living in shacks made of sticks and mud and leaves.

Re: Starship Integrated Flight Test 2 at 7 Am Central Time

#196

Post by [deleted] »

aw1621107 wrote: post #173
mongol wrote: post #90

What is the benfit of hot staging?

To expand on KennyBlanken's answer: Rockets generally want their fuel to be sitting on the bottom of the tank, where the engines are. That's easy enough when the rocket is sitting on the ground and when the engines are firing, but once the rocket starts coasting/decelerating (e.g., when the engines turn off due to reaching the end of their burn) the fuel may drift away from the fuel intakes, resulting in the engines…

[deleted]

Re: Starship Integrated Flight Test 2 at 7 Am Central Time

#197

Post by jryle70 »

Podgajski wrote: post #152
icegreentea2 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, I generally agree with you. But you really do need to wonder how much of the "SpaceX" cheering is staged/prompted. For example, they let out a big cheer from the SpaceX employees right after Starship RUD'd (try t+8:30). But the interleaved shots of their actual control center shows far more restraint. Certainly no overly disappointed looks, but Elon's face looks quite measured. Though of course, even the most ne…

Yes, this is my point. It’s marketing. I was taught not to wallow in my failures, but not to celebrate them either when I’m trying to reach a larger goal. There’s no success in failure, that’s an oxymoron,. You can learn things from failure, but it’s not a success never.

Of course there’s success in failure. If you need 10 things to work right, and you can't verify all 10 things at once (because they need to happen in sequence), but you make it step by step, then it's a success. If you can verify not one but multiple things in a single test, that'd be a big success. If all 10 things work then it's a total success. And if you can repeat the test 10 times, then you have a home run, especially for something as groundbreaking as Starship.

Why is it so difficult to understand? I'm sure you know the odd of 10 things failing is not 10 times of a single failure, but much higher.

Re: Starship Integrated Flight Test 2 at 7 Am Central Time

#198

Post by chpatrick »

Podgajski wrote: post #189
chpatrick wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there is. You need to collect a certain amount of information before you get it working. If the test collects a good amount of information, it's a success, even if the rocket explodes. It would have been a failure if they didn't get any further than their last launch.

It’s not hard to collect information. And you really think they wouldn’t spin this as a success, if they didn’t get further than the last launch? The problem is, there’s a lack of humility, and no one knows what it’s like to be humble anymore.

> It’s not hard to collect information.

Of course it is, they had go fix all the problems with the last launch to get further, and that's already insanely difficult. They succeeded at the hot staging and almost made it to orbit altitude with the Starship. If you think that's a failure, there's no point discussing any more.

Re: Starship Integrated Flight Test 2 at 7 Am Central Time

#200

Post by chpatrick »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #195
chpatrick wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mars is a horrible place to live so I'll take Earth any day. But it would be nice if humanity doesn't get wiped out if we get unlucky with an asteroid.

In the meantime, we're already well into ecological collapse (I think we've lost something like 3/4s of the earth's species?) and existential-threat-level climate change which in fifty years or so will be so bad we'll be dealing with near constant humanitarian crises...with no sign of improvement on either front. Decarbonization isn't happening nearly fast enough and industrial pollution is chugging along. Frankly, I…

I don't think it has to be either-or. We can work on saving Earth while also trying to travel to other planets.
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