A time honoured tactic in Scandinavian labor relations https://mattbruenig.com/2021/09/20/when-mcdonalds-came-to-de...
This is exactly what the story reminded me of.
Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move
201–210 of 230 posts
Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sadly, HN isn't a place to ask questions about second-order effects in politics anymore. Unions are basically legal cartels / mafias, and people will honestly think there are no effects on labour markets, prices or employment and everything is pure upside, wealth generated out of thin air.
I mean, if unions are cartels, then so are corporate boards.
I've never felt pressured to join a corporate board against my will.
Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
A person who puts his own needs above those of his neighbors.
Is the world really that black and white? An unemployed person got a job, is he supposed to decline because someone else didn't want to go to their job because collective bargaining is more important than having a job?
In a society with healthy unions and strike protection, there is also a functional unemployment system. Staying on unemployment benefits another month, earning 80% of your previous salary, allows the potential scab to stand in solidarity with the strikers, and would be the moral decision. Not to mention the strategic decision, as there will be real social and employability costs to choosing to cross a strike line.
Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move
#204Typical swedes. It is probably the most woke country in the world... but they are paying a price for that now.
What price are they paying?
Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move
#205Interesting. How is this in Norway? I assume tesla fights union's there also. The culture and value system where union employers and the government is working together is standing really strong in Norway. Could this spread to the Norwegian Market? How big is the Norwegian Market for tesla now? Some years ago it was significant, but I assume the rest of the world is catching up and that its not that important anymore?
Norway is not nearly as woke as Sweden, so I doubt it.
Norway has a very similar labour market as Sweden, it's the Nordic model after all.
Define "wokeness" before we can continue.
Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
Swedish unions do not mandate membership, and do not "prevent other people from being hired", unless they're talking about speculative indirect effects like "setting a minimum salary kills jobs". Members and non-members work together at the same companies, and the collective agreements between the unions and the employer organizations apply to all employees, not just members.
From elsewhere in this thread: "A key reason for the sympathy strikes is that Tesla brought in scabs which is a big no-no in Scandinavian labor markets." Sounds like an attempt to prevent other people from being hired. Re: setting a minimum salary -- suppose we set the minimum price of burgers at $100/burger. Do you think that would cause people to buy fewer burgers? I don't think "minimum salary kills jobs" is specu…
> Especially for low-skilled immigrants whose main way to compete is willingness to work for low wages.
A race to the bottom, exploitative labour market is not what we want here in Sweden.
Preying on someone's desperation to work for lower wages than what collectively we think is fair is pure exploitation. The labour market in Sweden is quite free and mostly deregulated, the main pillar of the foundation for it being fair is for employers and employees to engage in negotiations, unions play a key role in regulating the labour market to set a minimum threshold.
You are just advocating for allowing exploitation of immigrants.
Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move
#207Meanwhile, statement from the Union: https://www.arbetaren.se/2023/11/13/if-metall-strejkkassan-r... "Our strike fund is enough to keep this up for 500 years."
On one hand, that is epic. On the other hand, it means the union has leached a monumental amount of capital out of the workers and industries they are involved with. A union should not have that much cash in the bank.
There are ~250k members of IF Metall, that makes it US$ 4k per member.
That isn't a monumental amount of capital to ensure worker protections when needed, how do you think the union could keep a strike if it doesn't have money in the piggybank to cover members salaries if required?
Please, don't be a corporation apologist.
Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
The workers want it. Their laws say they have a right to it. There's no arguing past that. Let me ask you a question: why do you deserve any respect ? I'm just curious. I'm not seriously asking, just showing you how your question is bullshit.
I wasn't asking in an anti-union stance. I'm actually curious. Of course I understand the general purpose of a labor union. But I also understand that there are many situations where a union is unnecessary and actually detrimental to the labor force. For example, if I pay all my employees the same wage I make and pay for the same insurance and retirement plan I have, would it be beneficial to my employees to join a u…
You could equally flip your questions: If you only do things that your employees like, then why would you care if they have a union or not? In that case, the only thing a union would do is ensure that this state persists, which definitely is beneficial to employees.
Even a company that's great to work for today is just one leveraged buyout or restructuring away from worker's hell.
Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
The employer benefits the employer. The union benefits the employee, thus providing a balance in the power between employer and employee.
They had to sell of Volvo to Ford and then it got resold to China, so maybe there are cracks in the benefits.
What does that have to do with unions in Sweden?
Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
> A contract violation is not a violation of law. False; contract law is, as the name suggests, law, and there are legally established remedies for violations.
I think we may be running into the weeds of pedantry here, but here goes... (Speaking about how things are in the US. I don't know how they are elsewhere.) Contract law is about how to interpret and adjudicate contracts when there is a dispute between the parties in the contract. Nothing about that means that violating a contract, in and of itself, is illegal. You aren't going to suffer any criminal penalties for fai…
"I think we may be running into the weeds of pedantry here, but here goes..."
When we are talking about the law, of course one has to be pedantic. Apart from that, the sibling posters expressed my reply very well already.