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Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

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Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#181
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s not assume Tesla treats its workers badly though. I’ve talked to Tesla workers and they were very happy. The union is just butthurt that Tesla is not unionized and has happy workers. You’ll find plenty of negative media if you look, but there are reasons those stories get planted and promoted, reasons having little to do with truth.

> The union is just butthurt that Tesla is not unionized and has happy workers. No. The union leadership didn't unilaterally decide to go on strike. Tesla's "happy workers" had to vote on it and decided to. So perhaps they're not as happy as you'd believe.

> The union leadership didn't unilaterally decide to go on strike. Tesla's "happy workers" had to vote on it and decided to.

I can't find information that confirms this.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the employer avoid having to do skill assessment? Do they trust the union?

They trust the certification body. Either you demonstrably know the electrical code or you don’t. And the union requires its members to have their licenses (save for apprentices — but they can wash out). Imagine how much time we could all save if an impartial body certified developers can do breadth first search or reverse strings. No need for all of those phone screen and first round interview questions.

I suppose that works for cookie-cutters where the union treats people as directly interchangeable. Maybe that applies to the majority of union jobs?

I imagine that wouldn't extrapolate to careers where there's a component of soft skill, or hiring for potential?

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, in less derogatory terms, "strikebreaker": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker

There's no reason to use that term.

There's an obvious need to "use that term", given that it's in answer to a question from someone who didn't know what the slang term meant. So clear communication is one reason.

But otherwise, yeah, if you want to disagree with people by calling them derogatory names, you're right: "strikebreaker" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A person who fills in for a striking worker.

A person who puts his own needs above those of his neighbors.

Sure, if you like. I wasn't being judgmental. I was just telling the person what the word meant.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand, that is epic. On the other hand, it means the union has leached a monumental amount of capital out of the workers and industries they are involved with. A union should not have that much cash in the bank.

> leached We should use this term more often against the corporations exploiting the workers. I am somewhat ambivalent towards unions - they can sometimes be a blessing or a curse to the workers. It really needs some regulation to ensure they serve the workers rather than serving the ones willing to play union politics. But I am not at all ambivalent on corporations. Their only mandate is profit, and they will exploi…

Somehow they never seem to have 500 years of payroll though

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason to use that term.

We're enjoying a very labor-friendly market, but there are many examples in certain periods where unions locked up good, well-paying jobs behind exclusionary, nepotistic, and racist membership practices. So I would be happy to distinguish between a scab who is looking to make a quick buck and a strikebreaker who was never eligible for a union job in the first place. Depends on the context.

In Europe, typically, a collective bargaining agreement is agreed between the company and the unions - and then it applies to all workers, union member or not.

But unions don't have any say in who gets a job. There is no such thing as a "union job".

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#187
post #41
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solidarity Action https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidarity_action In Australia, Latvia, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, the United States, and the United Kingdom, solidarity action is theoretically illegal, and strikes can only be against the contractual employer.

How does that even work? I am, and should be, free to not show up to work for any reason I choose. If I'm legally required to work, isn't that forced labor?

That bakery complaining about the gay wedding cake would make the same complaint: “This is forced labor!”

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a pretty broad brush you’re using. My experience is mostly with the IBEW and so won’t be applicable in all cases. But, the employer gets a flexible, locally licensed work force. They can hire as many people as they need off the union book (no need for lengthy recruitment, skill assessment, and compensation negotiation) on demand and they can lay off electricians as a job winds down. Each local contract will be…

It's my impression that the skilled trades unions (electricians, ironworkers, steamfitters, etc.) are different from e.g. the UAW. UAW is not running an apprenticeship program for autoworkers. UAW members are not employed as needed on demand by the auto manufacturers. Unions like the UAW exist almost completely as a collective bargaining organization for employment contracts with big automakers. Is this incorrect?

Unfortunately, I don’t have any insight into the UAW. I hope they add value in some way. Unions should adapt to the needs of the sector they’re in so I do expect it’s fairly different from the trades. There’s skilled labor still involved at some level.

My point was just to highlight that unions can and, in some cases are, beneficial to the employer even in the US. That’s not to say all unions are great. These discussions tend to lack nuance.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#189
post #41
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solidarity Action https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidarity_action In Australia, Latvia, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, the United States, and the United Kingdom, solidarity action is theoretically illegal, and strikes can only be against the contractual employer.

How does that even work? I am, and should be, free to not show up to work for any reason I choose. If I'm legally required to work, isn't that forced labor?

[deleted]

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be the ideal outcome because it would keep companies small, in turn their market shares remain small, leaving room for lots of competition. Not sure the proposal would actually lead to this outcome, but it is a good outcome in my book.

wouldn't that defeat the whole point of gp's proposal of worker owned production ( vs capital owned ) . Why does worker ownership not matter in small companies?

To answer your original query, we can add other incentives to the system if larger firm size (by employee number) is beneficial in certain industries. Perhaps, the most straightforward way would be to not have a cliff for the minimum size where the 50% bound kicks in, but some linear function of number of workers. Since, larger firms often have a competitive advantage, this would increase the equilibrium size.

> Why does worker ownership not matter in small companies?

1. Small business owners also exploit their workers but this is partially solved by (a) competition between small firms, and (b) labor laws.

2. The reason labor laws are often ineffective is that the capitalist class, who owns large businesses, pays off federal/provincial politicians to change laws so their exploitation is legal, or to weaken enforcing agencies. Fixing the ownership of large firms will reduce worker exploitation in both small and large firms.

3. Stock-market listed companies are especially bad at worker (and customer) rights because they have to continuously grow. By ensuring that such companies are majority-owned by workers, the bad effects of the stock-market will be reduced (though not eliminated). Small companies are rarely listed.

4. Companies usually start small. Always starting as a co-op would make many businesses non-viable. And I don't see how society will be improved by family-owned restaurants or mom-and-pop shops operated as co-ops. So let the small companies continue to be owned by their founders.

Moreover, the capitalist class also lobbies for other legal/executive changes that transfer wealth from the worker class to the the capitalist class. That is a larger political problem that is solved by reducing the power of the capitalist class with these worker-ownership measures.

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