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Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

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Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#151

Post by johngladtj »

simlevesque wrote: post #138
Beached wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hardly call it stealing. they decided to no longer work for the previously agreed upon compensation package. the employer found new employees that would do the work they need done. no one stole anything. I agree and encourage unions and collective bargaining, but a strike breaker is hardly a thief, they are just a worker who needs money like the guy striking

> they are just a worker who needs money like the guy striking I need a house and you do too. Let me live in your house since we both need it.

The job doesn't belong to you

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#152

Post by klyrs »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #56
simlevesque wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason to use that term.

Not insulting people that disagree with you and need the work is a good reason. Even as a frenchmen, I don't think strikes are sacred.

Medically speaking, scabs are good, right? If your blood didn't clot, and didn't form scabs, you'd bleed out from a small cut.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#153

Post by pxc »

bastardoperator wrote: post #55
simlevesque wrote: post #3

Good for them. I love to see workers uniting. In this increasingly globalized world, each country is still different. You can't expect swedish workers to accept that you treat them like american workers just because your company is big. I really like this part: > Even postal workers will stop delivering mail to Tesla

It's crazy what average folks can do when they collectively own the means of production.

Workers don't collectively own the means of production in Sweden, but they are collectively pwning at the moment

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#154

Post by FireBeyond »

natch wrote: post #100
Spivak wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then Tesla should treat their workers better so this doesn't happen. So rude of them.

Let’s not assume Tesla treats its workers badly though. I’ve talked to Tesla workers and they were very happy. The union is just butthurt that Tesla is not unionized and has happy workers. You’ll find plenty of negative media if you look, but there are reasons those stories get planted and promoted, reasons having little to do with truth.

> The union is just butthurt that Tesla is not unionized and has happy workers.

No. The union leadership didn't unilaterally decide to go on strike. Tesla's "happy workers" had to vote on it and decided to.

So perhaps they're not as happy as you'd believe.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#155

Post by rangerelf »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #131
sisve wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but I think you are way of here. I live in Norway, and as far as I know the reason for the immigration problems in sweden is mostly related to taking in a lot of immgrants, much more then other countries did (compared to swedens population) over a long period and then failing to integrated them. Basically creating ghettos. In addition to this the government was to slow with providing additional resources when…

"Failing to integrate them" could be because they struggled to find jobs, due to unions acting as a cartel and shutting competitors out of the labor market. If Norway accepted fewer immigrants, that means that fewer jobs for immigrants are needed. If you accept a lot of immigrants, you'd like to have employment opportunities for _all_ of them. Unionization could cause this problem by lowering demand for unskilled wor…

"Could be...", "what if...", "maybe it's..." ...

So much wishy-washiness and absolutely zero concrete information.

I don't think you're proving any points.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#156

Post by whalesalad »

standardUser wrote: post #116
whalesalad wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand, that is epic. On the other hand, it means the union has leached a monumental amount of capital out of the workers and industries they are involved with. A union should not have that much cash in the bank.

Are we suddenly in the business of deciding who should have how much money? Because if so, we clearly need to deal with the individual billionaires long, long before we work our way down to any unions.

Unions are an abstraction, a necessary evil. They are not designed to be profitable in the same way a capitalist is.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#157

Post by moogly »

whalesalad wrote: post #61
malermeister wrote: post #39

Meanwhile, statement from the Union: https://www.arbetaren.se/2023/11/13/if-metall-strejkkassan-r... "Our strike fund is enough to keep this up for 500 years."

On one hand, that is epic. On the other hand, it means the union has leached a monumental amount of capital out of the workers and industries they are involved with. A union should not have that much cash in the bank.

Or it means that full-blown strikes are actually pretty rare in Sweden due to... ...collective bargaining agreements.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#158

Post by standardUser »

whalesalad wrote: post #156
standardUser wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we suddenly in the business of deciding who should have how much money? Because if so, we clearly need to deal with the individual billionaires long, long before we work our way down to any unions.

Unions are an abstraction, a necessary evil. They are not designed to be profitable in the same way a capitalist is.

Corporations are an abstraction. Groups of workers however have always existed, have always comprised the vast majority of people in societies and have always had shared interests.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#159

Post by FireBeyond »

arcticbull wrote: post #89
JohnFen wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not if you signed a contract declaring that you will show up. Yes, even then. A contract violation is not a violation of law. My question is about it being illegal.

> Yes, even then. A contract violation is not a violation of law. My question is about it being illegal. Breach of contract is a violation of civil (but not criminal) law. It's illegal but it's not a crime. The question is more of enforceability and of compensation due, if any.

No, it's still not illegal. It is not a tort, which is a "civil wrong". Contract law is about breach of duty and remedies. You would not be forced to do the thing, generally, but may be required to compensate for the breach.

Re: Swedish dockworkers are refusing to unload Teslas at ports in broad boycott move

#160

Post by legitster »

japanuspus wrote: post #16

Important context which I could not find mentioned in TFA: A key reason for the sympathy strikes is that Tesla brought in scabs which is a big no-no in Scandinavian labor markets.

Is there a reference to the scabs? I am not seeing that anywhere in the article. It just says that Tesla doesn't have a signed labor contract with its mechanics - it doesn't appear that there is any strike or dispute. So it might not be "scabs" in our sense of the word.
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