Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How to boss without being bossy

jeffwofford.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 206 posts

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#191

Post by anymouse123456 »

TylerE wrote: post #143
anymouse123456 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I also stiffen under, "I want you to..." In those cases I strongly prefer to use and hear, "Will you please..." There's something in it that feels like I don't exist. It's just an announcement of what the King or Queen wants. I'm not worthy of consideration in the request.

"Will you please" makes me think of a parent telling their kid to stop kicking the back of the seat in front of them. That's like the MOST passive aggressive phrasing.

Of course it depends on the tone, the context, and the request itself.

When I'm asking someone to do something, I almost always want to know if that request is a stupid thing to do right then. So, "Will you please" implies my intent. If you don't think it's the right thing, then let me know and I'll almost always be persuaded by the new information.

If the reason is, "I don't feel like it." that's one kind of conversation, but the more common response is, "I'm right in the middle of xyz, can we do this tomorrow?", or even "I'm not sure we should do that at all because, x, y and z."

The answer is almost always, "Of course, thanks for letting me know."

All that said, a "Will you please" when you really mean, "Do this shit right now, or else!" is one of the most infuriating things people do and I've left an otherwise great relationship in large part because that nonsense was constant.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#192

Post by kubanczyk »

TylerE wrote: post #186
kubanczyk wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is everyone using "passive aggressive" these days when they really mean "irritated"? The parents in your example situation couldn't be really accused (even implicitly) of being aggressive and they are definitely not passive. And there's nothing wrong with being irritated. The phrase used to mean responses like "I wonder why some people act like moronic pieces of shit about others' seats". See how it's non-direct…

It's passive aggressive because it's a passive statement that carries a strong threat of negative reaction if it isn't followed.

Something like "will you please stop kicking the seat" carries a strong threat relative to which other variant? It's more passive than which other variant? Or do you claim that it's a passive voice grammar-wise? (It isn't.)

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#193

Post by brandensilva »

Jeff_Brown wrote: post #179
brandensilva wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting how this changes the tone. "You will do this" no agency, no control, no considerations, skips calling out authority and goes direct "Will you do this?" Direct, has agency but potentially confrontational if you say no "I need you to do this" indicates their authority, direct, no control, could be inconsiderate to some as they overriding your priorities for their own It can to be softened up with a qu…

Haha yes, "I need you to evacuate" is certainly no good -- but "evacuate; this building is burning and you will be trapped soon otherwise" is much better than "evacuate". People who grow used to urgent-sounding requests are likely to blow them off. I once got fired for not doing something the way the boss wanted, because at my previous job we did it the opposite way. He had explained that he wanted me to do it, but d…

Yeah I think you boiled it down well that interruptions are often abused and so people become desensitized to meaningful levels of urgency.

Context matters a whole lot, some of which doesn't even have to be verbal, but I've found that adding the why goes a long ways in getting people on board because no one wants to dive head first blindly into a demand or request without knowing the reason or desired outcome.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#194

Post by pmorici »

gmokki wrote: post #188
pmorici wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"find the flaws in the system instead of somebody to blame" An issue can run the gambit from "it's the system" to person X is not doing their job inline with the basic expectations. Subpar managers will always try and blame the system over individual accountability even when the problem is blatantly obvious because if the person is the problem then that necessitates an uncomfortable social interaction. Best to unders…

Could it be that HR/management part of the system is then at fault if a person is kept in a role where they do harm. Most likely the system has been notified, but it has failed to react to the warnings.

They certainly share in the blame if they know about problem employees and fail to act, the same is true for systemic problem under their control.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#195

Post by ozim »

sspiff wrote: post #96
somewhereoutth wrote: post #19

Anybody who says 'I need you to...' goes on the list, even if they are not actually talking to me myself. But more seriously: Ensure people know what and why something is important, ideally by arriving at that conclusion jointly and as part of an overarching plan that everyone can feel involved in - thus requests shouldn't be a surprise, they aren't coming from you so much as from the plan (nebulous though it may be)…

In my personal experience, I prefer people saying "I need you to" over "If you could just". The "nice" corner of the chart simply screams hypocrisy to me. Like they want to say or mean "do this" but they try to couch it in some passive aggressive pleasantry. No thank you. I prefer clear communication.

I am not native English speaker but for me ideal is: “I have x to be done, could you pick it up?”.

If person says no or asks why I can elaborate or hear them out why and maybe I will do it on my own or delegate to another person.

That sentence seems clear on what needs to be done and that it needs to be done, there is no “could, maybe” on the “do it” part and still gives other person control over the situation.

For reasonable request and from boss position I don’t see how would it backfire.

For unreasonable request or unreasonable person on receiving end - I guess there is no good way anyway :)

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#196

Post by ruszki »

onetimeuse92304 wrote: post #183
somewhereoutth wrote: post #19

Anybody who says 'I need you to...' goes on the list, even if they are not actually talking to me myself. But more seriously: Ensure people know what and why something is important, ideally by arriving at that conclusion jointly and as part of an overarching plan that everyone can feel involved in - thus requests shouldn't be a surprise, they aren't coming from you so much as from the plan (nebulous though it may be)…

Sometimes, there just is a need for "I need you to". This is literally called delegation. And as a boss, you need to learn to delegate and first thing about delegation is that the other person must know clearly something was delegated to them. Playing games around delegation only makes for worse experience. Creates noise, uncertainty and unnecessary failure. In the end, if I am hired and paid for 8h of my time, I exp…

You can also delegate to your boss. It’s not necessarily a one way flow. I do this all the time, and any competent employee whom I’ve ever seen did the same. You can delegate decisions to your boss.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#197

Post by suoduandao2 »

gardenhedge wrote: post #139
solatic wrote: post #51

If you're looking for the right turn of phrase, you already lost. As a leader, you need to establish a rapport (with someone who is anyway initially inclined to desire rapport with you, because you're their boss and have outsize influence over future compensation) and negotiate over high-level context: IC availability and understanding what problems need solving. If everyone understands the problem and there's mutual…

> If you're looking for the right turn of phrase, you already lost. As a leader.. If you're not considering your language and phrasing as a leader.. then you're not doing it right. Self reflection and adjustment is a huge part of leading.

Yes, but I think the ops point is that the correct phrasing is report-specific, and trying to get phrasing down without considering whom one will be speaking to is a sure sign of failure

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#198

Post by anymouse123456 »

TylerE wrote: post #182
tekchip wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to echo this. "Please" implies an optional action like when you're trying to be kind to a child. As an adult some people will need you to do things unequivocally. If you can't handle that then that's really unfortunate for you. Please, get over yourself and understand that sometimes business is business and some thing must be done. They aren't optional. Otherwise you may find yourself finding a new job. Hav…

It's not that it reads as optional to me, as that it's kinda hard to read without seeing the implied "you should have done this already, without being told".

The tone, trust and context are massively important in these kinds of communications.

I don't think I've ever used this phrasing in writing, maybe because I also hear something similar to what you're hearing when I read it to myself...

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#199

Post by docandrew »

cmclaughlin wrote: post #4

Here's how my wife does it... "Do you want to take out the trash?" My engineer mind interprets it literally every time :) Usually I don't mind taking out the trash... but occasionally I don't really want to. I have to always translate this to "She wants me to take out the trash".

There’s a funny comedy bit about the passive-aggressive phrasing “we need to ”. “Is that a _he_ need, or a _she_ need?” Who’s we in this scenario?

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#200

Post by gardenhedge »

suoduandao2 wrote: post #197
gardenhedge wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're looking for the right turn of phrase, you already lost. As a leader.. If you're not considering your language and phrasing as a leader.. then you're not doing it right. Self reflection and adjustment is a huge part of leading.

Yes, but I think the ops point is that the correct phrasing is report-specific, and trying to get phrasing down without considering whom one will be speaking to is a sure sign of failure

OP clearly said "If you're looking for the right turn of phrase, you already lost", which I quoted.

OP is correct that rapport is important - although that's a different thing from what the article is discussing. An exercise for you and OP: Consider being the boss of a team where you haven't had time to build rapport with the team.

Post reply on HN