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How to boss without being bossy

jeffwofford.com

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Re: How to boss without being bossy

#181

Post by xepriot »

happytoexplain wrote: post #15
xepriot wrote: post #12

Neuroticising over how to word your commands (polite requests) is slave mindset, and such a person who does this is not a 'leader'. What makes a leader is not how you word things. But almost nobody walking around in corporate america has an inspiringly authoritative personality, and you can't make yourself into one very easily, so retarded articles like this are the best they can do. If you are a leader, then when yo…

>If you are a leader, then when you simply say 'go do this', the follower actually wants to do it and does not care about how carefully you handle their feelings. Nope, communicating with humans is the same art whether you think you are a leader or not. Some cultures have a strong sense of hierarchy, which in their business interactions is expressed in the petty, demeaning game of "act like a sycophant insect to thos…

you demonstrate the slave mindset. you cannot imagine and so reject the possibility of an individual with the charismatic power to make those below him not feel like insects yet at the same time not neuroticise or even consciously attend at at all to how he comports himself. These individuals are not rare, either - but you cannot see them properly, likely because of the same resentment which causes you to describe followers, again, as 'insects'.

This understanding is not available to your 'concepts' or however you want to terminologize your gay taxonomy of hierarchies. either you get it - you get that people instinctively want to have someone above them to respect, and even admire (love), while they obey - or you don't.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#182

Post by TylerE »

tekchip wrote: post #170
TylerE wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Will you please" makes me think of a parent telling their kid to stop kicking the back of the seat in front of them. That's like the MOST passive aggressive phrasing.

I'm going to echo this. "Please" implies an optional action like when you're trying to be kind to a child. As an adult some people will need you to do things unequivocally. If you can't handle that then that's really unfortunate for you. Please, get over yourself and understand that sometimes business is business and some thing must be done. They aren't optional. Otherwise you may find yourself finding a new job. Hav…

It's not that it reads as optional to me, as that it's kinda hard to read without seeing the implied "you should have done this already, without being told".

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#183

Post by onetimeuse92304 »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #19

Anybody who says 'I need you to...' goes on the list, even if they are not actually talking to me myself. But more seriously: Ensure people know what and why something is important, ideally by arriving at that conclusion jointly and as part of an overarching plan that everyone can feel involved in - thus requests shouldn't be a surprise, they aren't coming from you so much as from the plan (nebulous though it may be)…

Sometimes, there just is a need for "I need you to". This is literally called delegation.

And as a boss, you need to learn to delegate and first thing about delegation is that the other person must know clearly something was delegated to them.

Playing games around delegation only makes for worse experience. Creates noise, uncertainty and unnecessary failure.

In the end, if I am hired and paid for 8h of my time, I expect my boss to tell me what she needs me to do within those 8h.

Now, there are different ways to delegate. You can tell them "I need you to" 20 times a day pointing to small things or they can tell them "I need you to" on the first day of their job and then shut up about it.

One of my first questions to my new bosses is literally "what do you need me to do", unless they have already told me. This is to avoid any confusion about what I am supposed to be doing.

--

All this nice and softy stuff comes after you have the very basic business of managing team done. To be nice to your team you need to have a reason to have a team and then you need to have a team or at least collection of people who are assigned as your resources for you to delegate work to.

--

There is a pyramid of needs on both employer and employee side.

The employee needs to be paid first. Then treated nicely. Given the choice of being paid and treated nicely I would chose being treated nicely but that's just because I can go somewhere else to be paid and also have savings to not have to worry about it for a long time. If you don't have savings and don't have somewhere else to get paid, you care less about being treated nicely.

Likewise, the employer needs work to be done first. Whether they care for their workforce or not, work is more important because if the work isn't taken care of then there is no chance they can take care for the team anyway. At least not long term.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#184

Post by Shaanie »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #110
NiloCK wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anybody who says 'I need you to...' goes on the list, even if they are not actually talking to me myself. Can you say more about this? I use this phrase (or slight variations) all the time in both work and personal contexts. I had no idea it could be abrasive.

It implies that the recipient should be pandering to your 'needs'. Better to say that it is the thing that has 'needs' - e.g. 'the rubbish needs to be taken out [before the dustbin people get here]'

Those are different, though. Your statement leaves ambiguity as to who will tend to the objects' needs. Sometimes the implication that you are the one expected to do it is clear, but far from always.

People on the spectrum will probably struggle with that type of ambiguity too, which is worth keeping in mind.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#185

Post by kubanczyk »

TylerE wrote: post #143
anymouse123456 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I also stiffen under, "I want you to..." In those cases I strongly prefer to use and hear, "Will you please..." There's something in it that feels like I don't exist. It's just an announcement of what the King or Queen wants. I'm not worthy of consideration in the request.

"Will you please" makes me think of a parent telling their kid to stop kicking the back of the seat in front of them. That's like the MOST passive aggressive phrasing.

Why is everyone using "passive aggressive" these days when they really mean "irritated"? The parents in your example situation couldn't be really accused (even implicitly) of being aggressive and they are definitely not passive.

And there's nothing wrong with being irritated.

The phrase used to mean responses like "I wonder why some people act like moronic pieces of shit about others' seats". See how it's non-direct but aggressive at the same time?

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#186

Post by TylerE »

kubanczyk wrote: post #185
TylerE wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Will you please" makes me think of a parent telling their kid to stop kicking the back of the seat in front of them. That's like the MOST passive aggressive phrasing.

Why is everyone using "passive aggressive" these days when they really mean "irritated"? The parents in your example situation couldn't be really accused (even implicitly) of being aggressive and they are definitely not passive. And there's nothing wrong with being irritated. The phrase used to mean responses like "I wonder why some people act like moronic pieces of shit about others' seats". See how it's non-direct…

It's passive aggressive because it's a passive statement that carries a strong threat of negative reaction if it isn't followed.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#187

Post by kubanczyk »

freedomben wrote: post #145
PunchTornado wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. No matter how much trust there is I accept nobody to tell me "I need you to do ..." or some other direct variant. Fortunately I encountered few bad bosses like this.

This is honestly fascinating to me, so I ask these questions in a curious and honest attempt to understand you more. Do you know why you feel this way? How does it make you feel when somebody says that? Does this stay true even for a significant other? Meta: I upvoted because this is a legitimate perspective and one I think that needs to be shared. For the down voters, why would you down vote this? Is there a reason…

> Do you know why you feel this way?

It seems genetic instead of cultural, at least in my case. The local culture is quite direct about commands. And when I look at my father, I see the same trait. Far stronger, actually.

> How does it make you feel when somebody says that?

When someone is bossing around, I suddenly start to feel extremely independent and being robbed of my agency. I'm likely to do the opposite, just to manifest/assert my "rights". Just a slight change of phrasing (or my own attention) can direct the decision to a different circuit.

And the other side of the deal is that "I must" always means for me a very deep intrinsic motivation. I feel so much motivated about variety of the weirdest stuff that there's just no room left in me for "there's a societal expectation for you to do X".

> Does this stay true even for a significant other?

Of course, we often joke about it.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#188

Post by gmokki »

pmorici wrote: post #125
somewhereoutth wrote: post #19

Anybody who says 'I need you to...' goes on the list, even if they are not actually talking to me myself. But more seriously: Ensure people know what and why something is important, ideally by arriving at that conclusion jointly and as part of an overarching plan that everyone can feel involved in - thus requests shouldn't be a surprise, they aren't coming from you so much as from the plan (nebulous though it may be)…

"find the flaws in the system instead of somebody to blame" An issue can run the gambit from "it's the system" to person X is not doing their job inline with the basic expectations. Subpar managers will always try and blame the system over individual accountability even when the problem is blatantly obvious because if the person is the problem then that necessitates an uncomfortable social interaction. Best to unders…

Could it be that HR/management part of the system is then at fault if a person is kept in a role where they do harm. Most likely the system has been notified, but it has failed to react to the warnings.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#189

Post by supertofu »

Paul-Craft wrote: post #71
happytiger wrote: post #55

Good tech leaders generally don’t command: they inspire. And when you’re at the point where you’re trying to figure out the “right way to say things” you’ve already, utterly, failed. Good tech leaders influence, guide, and grow people. They are honest and authentic . The management style I have seen work the best is when people act in a real, genuine and sincere ways that are true to who they are as individuals and a…

> Good tech leaders generally don’t command: they inspire. Ding ding ding! You win the prize. The way I always put this to people is that "if dictating worked, there'd be a lot more dictators in the world." > Good tech leaders influence, guide, and grow people. They are honest and authentic. > The management style I have seen work the best is when people act in a real, genuine and sincere ways that are true to who th…

I recently quit a dev job because the project manager micromanaged everything (among other reasons). In that job I was treated as a set of hands to execute someone else's vision and nothing more. No one ever said to me "figure it out", even though that is my number one skill as a developer, and that is the part of my job that I love the most.

Thank you for sharing this anecdote. It has helped me understand the management style I prefer.

Re: How to boss without being bossy

#190

Post by supertofu »

jrgoff wrote: post #160
Paul-Craft wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Good tech leaders generally don’t command: they inspire. Ding ding ding! You win the prize. The way I always put this to people is that "if dictating worked, there'd be a lot more dictators in the world." > Good tech leaders influence, guide, and grow people. They are honest and authentic. > The management style I have seen work the best is when people act in a real, genuine and sincere ways that are true to who th…

I would add to this the importance of listening to be part of this approach. I used to work at a company with a couple thousand engineers. My team was 20 or so people at the time and our dev environment was constantly breaking. It was not unusual for me to spend more than a full day each week trying to get my dev environment working and unable to do any development on what I was supposed to be doing. And that was com…

I can't understand why people don't apologize when they are wrong. It's not like people forget what you have said if you never admit your fault. Especially when you are a leader, admitting fault only makes people like you more.
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