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Nicotine (2016)

gwern.net

111–120 of 273 posts

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try it then. As someone who smoked and quit and have had friends who smoked and quit who also had heroin habits, they corroborate the difficulty. It’s a different type of struggle but the struggle is strong just the same.

I feel like I shouldn't have to try heroin to understand this. A solid paper on the topic would suffice.

A simple Google search returns hundreds if not thousands of results.

Here’s one for you https://academic.oup.com/ntr/article/20/9/1038/4096884

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have zero interest in cigarettes though. So like, let's say I started chewing a gum and then I became addicted to the gum. I'm assuming the downside here would be primarily withdrawal effects of not chewing the gum? It's not like it's going to be a gateway to cigarettes for me. You'll experience caffeine withdrawal too, so I'm not sure that's really a problem. From the article, > There is little evidence from the N…

The withdrawal effects are more like kicking a heroin addiction.

That's somewhat person dependent. I was a heavy smoker (3-4 packs a day) for several years, but quitting cold turkey was very easy for me. I basically had no cravings unless I was drinking, and those went away after a month.

I realize I'm an outlier.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#113

I'm concerned that many might miss the nuance and subtlety of the main issue: - Nicotine IS really addictive when distributed through common uses (smoking, vaping). Yes, if the absorption is progressive and in small dosages, the addiction is less severe, but this is not useful for smokers who want to quit and presents a dangerous introduction for others

Honestly addiction itself is not enough of a downside.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The withdrawal effects are more like kicking a heroin addiction.

That's somewhat person dependent. I was a heavy smoker (3-4 packs a day) for several years, but quitting cold turkey was very easy for me. I basically had no cravings unless I was drinking, and those went away after a month. I realize I'm an outlier.

I also believe it’s the duration of use and not the concentration of use that plays more a role here. Being a heavy smoker for 4 years isn’t the same mentally as someone who smoked normally for 20 years. I think past the 10 year mark and your brain has suffered damage to the point where the addiction becomes life. However, in about 10% of cases, smokers who quit were able to because the effects of nicotine addiction hadn’t taken hold. Much like some people feel nothing from taking cocaine.

IANAE though.

Either way. I was a smoker but not a heroin user and quitting was the hardest thing for me. It took me almost a month to feel normal.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#115

I used to be a smoker, for a good decade. Then, switched to vaping for 3-4 years, which allowed me to taper down my nicotine use and quit completely. This was about 5 years ago. Recently, I’ve started using nicotine gum to increase focus while working. I usually use 1 mg, maximum 4 times a day. I typically begin taking it in the afternoon, my morning work sessions are usually nicotine-free. I have been using it on mo…

You have zero desire to smoke or vape now but the usual way is you end up having a strong craving for your preferred mode of delivery (gum in your case) when it’s not available and then attempt another one to tide you through till your order gets here. Now you have two modes of delivery.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean smoking is terrible for you. As the cited studies indicate, nicotine itself (delivered by patched / gum) is fairly harmless. Not completely risk free, but nothing at all like smoking.

There's some studies suggesting nordic Snus (like all natural chew w/o chemicals added) is fairly harmless. Anecdotally I've read people highly addicted to it, so very suspicious of any claim that nicotine itself isn't addictive and just smoking is.

Does snus have much flavor? I've wondered if the psychological part of nicotine addiction is much stronger when there's a smell/taste association with the drug effect. (I'm not a smoker, just seen a couple hints suggesting this.)

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#117
Nicotine improves rote memorization and learning on repetitive tasks. Nicotine will teach you to be a really really good smoker unless you overlay some other ritual and modulate your ingestion mechanics.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have zero interest in cigarettes though. So like, let's say I started chewing a gum and then I became addicted to the gum. I'm assuming the downside here would be primarily withdrawal effects of not chewing the gum? It's not like it's going to be a gateway to cigarettes for me. You'll experience caffeine withdrawal too, so I'm not sure that's really a problem. From the article, > There is little evidence from the N…

Anecdotally, I've accidentally quit vaping several times, because I don't vape when I've caught a cold and that's coincided with me needing to buy supplies. I've gone back to it because I find it enjoyable, but, having watched my father quit smoking several times, I can't say that I've ever had withdrawals like that, or really at all. So my theory is, really, that cigarettes and tobacco in general is far more addicti…

I have quit cigarettes successfully (for ~10 years now) and found it wasn't too difficult. However, I have known people who could quit indefinitely and pick it back up without issue and people who are going through rounds of quitting, returning, quitting and so forth.

I personally believe there are additional elements involved that could be genetic or psychological.

Re: Nicotine (2016)

#120
I started smoking in high school and got turned onto dip by someone I ran cross country with that was on the wrestling team (very common for them to use for weight loss). The dip was really intense and I got a huge buzz from it, but after taking some magic mushrooms around my age 16 I tried to quit it all at once and really thought I was going insane. It was an incredibly potent nootropic though and was easy to hide for taking tests. I felt incredible taking the ACT. I switched back to smoking most of the time because most people think dip is disgusting, but eventually I tired of going outside in the cold and having to the fund the addiction, so I quit. It really wasn’t all that hard in the grand scheme of things, but took a couple of tries. It’s not something you want to undertake without planning or research and you are going to gain some weight and be out of it for a couple weeks. Years later I’d miss it and get back into the occasional cig or e-cigs or nicotine lozenges. Any time I did though they eventually just make me kind of lazy to where I just want to lay around and I realized I was better off going for walks or exercising. I don’t think it’s so bad to quit but it can mess up your stomach and you might lose a night of sleep so it’s not the funnest thing in the world. The last time I did this it was at night, I had an interview the next morning, and my stomach hurt from constipation so I gave up and put in a lozenge for a minute which unstopped me, but then couldn’t sleep due to the stimulation, had a horrible interview the next day and then went through with quitting.

If you can find the right dose/form then it really does have a boost to your brain, but my experience with this sort of thing is sort of like putting NOS in your fuel, it doesn’t matter if you can accelerate fast most of the time, because most of life is about driving safely and consistently at a steady speed and sometimes you can get ahead by speeding up and going through a yellow light to avoid a red, which the NOS can help with but usually burning NOS all the time is just an unnecessary expense. And you don’t want to have something like nicotine withdrawals slowing you down when you’re hitting a yellow like my interview which was a disaster. Having quit amphetamines, coffee, and nicotine multiple times, it’s not that bad, but it’s still a hassle and there’s never a good time and you’re better off eliminating as many hassles as you can from your life imo.

I definitely think the more addictive than heroin line is likely not accurate for nicotine itself but I’ve never been addicted to heroin so idk. I actually still think about starting it up again sometimes even though it’s been 15 years since I quit, maybe 3 since my last lozenge, but overall this experiment for me is concluded and nicotine is something I’m better off living without.

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