Tesla to build 25,000-euro car at German plant • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla to build 25,000-euro car at German plant

#41

Post by vasdae » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 10:32 AM UTC

raxxorraxor wrote: post #11

world2vec wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of budget you have? 25k euro is a pretty good price range for a small electric car, maybe you're better suited looking for second-hand cars.

Electric vehicles will succeed or fail with how they can establish themselves on a second hand market. I would have the budget for such a price, but I certainly wouldn't want to pay it. For official business there are company cars and I drive perhaps 5000 km per year. I still have a car and I need it to visit some more remote people and for convenience. Paid 2.5k for it and I have it since a few years. I do have a me…

>Electric vehicles will succeed or fail with how they can establish themselves on a second hand market.

They will "succeed" because the government will force us to use them. It's us citizens who will succeed or fail to have freedom to move, depending on how wealthy we are ;)

Re: Tesla to build 25,000-euro car at German plant

#42

Post by Retric » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 10:33 AM UTC

ashgoyal wrote: post #26

zapnuk wrote: post #10

More affordable (and smaller!!!) electric cars would be nice. However, out of the mouth of mr Musk it sounds more like hot air to distract from their cybertruck, roadster, semi truck, Tesla taxi/autonomous driving, and reliability (TÜV) failures. And wasn’t the model 3 already supposed to be the affordable Tesla?

I think the real reason to bring it to Berlin is because the Mexico gigafactory is on pause at the moment. Irrespective of what one may think, Musk has achieved model 3 and model y production in face of criticism.

The model 3 is a very successful car. However, based on what the stated goal of the Model 3 was, it failed. Unless you consider a brief 43 day window when sales where slow as hitting the target.

So, sure they may sell a handful of cars built at this factory at 25k, but more realistically this may be hitting the price point the Model 3 was aiming for.

Re: Tesla to build 25,000-euro car at German plant

#43

Post by yulaow » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 10:33 AM UTC

prmoustache wrote: post #36

tokamak-teapot wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at it that way, yes, it’s not expensive. I would say that the Fiesta is 10k too expensive.

In what world a 18k Fiesta is 10K too expensive if a top of the line trail mountain bike (pedal powered, not e-bike) is 11K?

The same car model just 10 years ago went for half the price. Same for the fiat Panda (my parents bought it in 2008 for 8k, now the most base model I can find is 19k). In the meantime salaries have not double at all (in some nations they even fell)

Re: Tesla to build 25,000-euro car at German plant

#44

Post by cloutchaser » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 10:35 AM UTC

bagels wrote: post #29

zpeti wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It was marketed as a $35,000 car, and never sold as such. First editions were all more expensive (long range or dual motor, I forget which)

They did. Then they stopped. https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/16/21569524/tesla-model-3-3...

The model 3 is still the 7th most sold car in 2022.

Is a car company not allowed to raise prices? Like what standard are you holding tesla to? If they can sell a tesla for $42k, why sell it for $35k? Because Elon said so in 2015? That's ridiculous, its just not how markets or companies work. And they DID sell it for $35,000, for a while. So Elon didn't even lie.

Absolutely ridiculous the mental gymnastics some people will go to to hate the guy. Insane.

Re: Tesla to build 25,000-euro car at German plant

#45

Post by Arnt » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 10:36 AM UTC

mrpopo wrote: post #32

Arnt wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. https://www.tesla.com/en_eu/blog/secret-tesla-motors-master-... says "So, in short, the master plan is: Build sports car. Use that money to build an affordable car. Use that money to build an even more affordable car. While doing above, also provide zero emission electric power generation options." There's no mention of stopping after a particular model.

That's a 17-y.o. blog post. Musk has very much changed since then. And where does the Cybertruck fall into that master plan?

I'm sure he has, but are you saying that back then, he did not say he would stop making more affordable cars and more recently has has said he will stop?

Re: Tesla to build 25,000-euro car at German plant

#46

Post by Retric » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 10:38 AM UTC

resolutebat wrote: post #39

bagels wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was marketed as a $35,000 car, and never sold as such. First editions were all more expensive (long range or dual motor, I forget which)

It was exactly $35k in 2019, and even today, despite massive inflation in the five years since, the base model is just under $39k. https://www.tesla.com/blog/35000-tesla-model-3-available-now

It was available online at that price for 43 days February 28, 2019 to April 12, 2019. So, sure they sold a handful of cars at that price point, but only as a face saving measure not actually in bulk.

Todays 39k cough 40k if you don’t want black, is viable due to battery prices falling dramatically over the 6 years since they started selling the car not them actually hitting the stated goal.

Re: Tesla to build 25,000-euro car at German plant

#47

Post by ricardobayes » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 10:39 AM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #30

bArray wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An electric four door estate makes tonnes of sense in the EU. The estate in the EU is an important car package, it's a family work horse. > In addition to keeping the cost of R&D and production low, Tesla wants to ensure the compact EV is easy to manufacture. It's simple and other manufacturers have done it for years. Just use standard parts where possible. Stop designing custom headlights, glass, wheels, etc, etc. I…

Sounds like a Citroen Ami? https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/citroen/ami

Not quite, "estate" is a station wagon.

Re: Tesla to build 25,000-euro car at German plant

#48

Post by pjmlp » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 10:41 AM UTC

lmm wrote: post #34

mattmanser wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean particular brands? Electric cars in general will be the only option. The big countries in the EU are banning selling new petrol cars in 2035. So they'll definitely succeed, there's no option!

Or people will stop driving. Or those deadlines will get pushed back.

Given how many locations depend on having car available and public transport offerings are a joke even in Europe, I am more going into the deadlines being pushed back scenario.

Not everyone is living in Amsterdam, Berlin, London,... city center.

Re: Tesla to build 25,000-euro car at German plant

#49

Post by ricardobayes » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 10:42 AM UTC

world2vec wrote: post #4

wiz21c wrote: post #2

That's already twice too much for my budget. But since we need to have less cars on the roads, maybe Tesla is just puching in the right direction :-)

What kind of budget you have? 25k euro is a pretty good price range for a small electric car, maybe you're better suited looking for second-hand cars.

Well, the average salary across the EU is 27K EUR, so 25K is arguably still pretty much, in the grand scheme of things.

Re: Tesla to build 25,000-euro car at German plant

#50

Post by jillesvangurp » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 10:45 AM UTC

raxxorraxor wrote: post #11

world2vec wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of budget you have? 25k euro is a pretty good price range for a small electric car, maybe you're better suited looking for second-hand cars.

Electric vehicles will succeed or fail with how they can establish themselves on a second hand market. I would have the budget for such a price, but I certainly wouldn't want to pay it. For official business there are company cars and I drive perhaps 5000 km per year. I still have a car and I need it to visit some more remote people and for convenience. Paid 2.5k for it and I have it since a few years. I do have a me…

It will come. The "problem" with EVs is that they retain their value much longer. Which is factored into their second hand value. Second hand ICE cars are cheap because they start having lots of issues when they get older and the risk of them needing some maintenance that exceeds the purchase price gets higher and higher.

If you buy a ten year old Nissan Leaf for, it will still be quite usable and be desirable enough that people are willing to pay a lot more than 2.5K for it. And if the time comes, you can put a new battery in it for 4-5K or so and drive it for another decade+.

And of course there aren't that many EVs that old around to begin with because the market was relatively new and small ten years ago. Most EVs on the road are probably younger than 3 years or so. They'll be on the road for a long time and might change owner a lot. But it will take some time to trickle down.