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Othello Is Solved?

arxiv.org

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Re: Othello Is Solved?

#121

Post by coldtea »

kelsey9876543 wrote: post #104
uxp8u61q wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foot races are also solved - these losers should just get a car!

Cars are not allowed in the rules of the game "foot race", therefore your solution is not valid and therefore your argument has no evidence to support your claim.

You used this word, evidence. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Parent made an argument by analogy, no evidence needs to enter the picture. At best you can say his analogy is flawed.

It's not even flawed, anyway. If cars not being allowed is supposed to refute the analogy, then an obvious answer would be that Othello playing programs could also banned in Othello competitions (given that the solution can't just be internalized by a human player).

Re: Othello Is Solved?

#122

Post by coffee_ »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #118
mark_l_watson wrote: post #89

This is cool. I solved a simpler game about 15 years ago that my brother and I used to play: an African game with about 10 pits on each side of the board that hold stones. I coded up an alpha-beta engine for it, and discovered crazy always win strategies to match how my brother and I played. Suddenly I would win all the games, and then he never wanted to play again. This was a classic match up of a computer scientist…

Mancala and connect four are classic examples of solved games. computer scientist vs. an optometrist. What does being an optometrist have to do with anything?

One solves problems and the other is a computer scientist.

Re: Othello Is Solved?

#123

Post by libraryatnight »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #118
mark_l_watson wrote: post #89

This is cool. I solved a simpler game about 15 years ago that my brother and I used to play: an African game with about 10 pits on each side of the board that hold stones. I coded up an alpha-beta engine for it, and discovered crazy always win strategies to match how my brother and I played. Suddenly I would win all the games, and then he never wanted to play again. This was a classic match up of a computer scientist…

Mancala and connect four are classic examples of solved games. computer scientist vs. an optometrist. What does being an optometrist have to do with anything?

Wasted his time learning to help people see, now he can't even kick ass at Mancala! The rube!

Re: Othello Is Solved?

#124

Post by uxp8u61q »

kelsey9876543 wrote: post #104
uxp8u61q wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foot races are also solved - these losers should just get a car!

Cars are not allowed in the rules of the game "foot race", therefore your solution is not valid and therefore your argument has no evidence to support your claim.

...is this satire?

Re: Othello Is Solved?

#125

Post by mkesper »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #49
axlee wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it render human games moot? Why would a software participate in a championship? The draw percentage in checkers/draught and in chess are roughly similar, (anywhere between 50% and 60% at high-level play), despite checkers being solved and chess not.

And honestly I think the draw percentage in chess is influenced just as much by sociological processes as it is by game theoretic concerns. The very top chess players are extremely risk averse. Chess is way too complex for humans to ever be able to play perfectly in sufficiently complex positions, honestly. The top players today obsessively avoid positions like that unless they can find a forced drawing line as a bac…

German soccer league followed the English and Italian league in 1994 with a three points rule. It seems to favor the better teams (with more expensive players) even more, stabilizing the championship. https://www.fiaa.at/theories/die-3-punkte-regel-und-ihre-pro...

Re: Othello Is Solved?

#126

Post by coldtea »

bluecalm wrote: post #43
bediger4000 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this paper render the championship moot? Is any software based on the paper entered? Is Othello like checkers, where there were mostly draws in high level games?

Chess is weakly solved for all practical purposes (it's not proven but no one is able to show a winning sequence for white even with weeks to prepare vs a top engine playing with something like 30 minutes per move) and it doesn't affect the competition at all. It's impossible to remember it all anyway. Once/if chess is formally weakly solved it will change exactly nothing for human chess players. If your plan is to r…

"Solved" in TFA sense is about a class of proofs being discovered, not about merely digital chess software playing better (even if they win every game).

Re: Othello Is Solved?

#127

Post by hombre_fatal »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #118
mark_l_watson wrote: post #89

This is cool. I solved a simpler game about 15 years ago that my brother and I used to play: an African game with about 10 pits on each side of the board that hold stones. I coded up an alpha-beta engine for it, and discovered crazy always win strategies to match how my brother and I played. Suddenly I would win all the games, and then he never wanted to play again. This was a classic match up of a computer scientist…

Mancala and connect four are classic examples of solved games. computer scientist vs. an optometrist. What does being an optometrist have to do with anything?

It’s a lowly profession for those less cunning, scarcely worthy of mention alongside the intellectual ballet that is the domain of software and computers.

Re: Othello Is Solved?

#128

Post by easton »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #118
mark_l_watson wrote: post #89

This is cool. I solved a simpler game about 15 years ago that my brother and I used to play: an African game with about 10 pits on each side of the board that hold stones. I coded up an alpha-beta engine for it, and discovered crazy always win strategies to match how my brother and I played. Suddenly I would win all the games, and then he never wanted to play again. This was a classic match up of a computer scientist…

Mancala and connect four are classic examples of solved games. computer scientist vs. an optometrist. What does being an optometrist have to do with anything?

It’s a joke. As in “CS vs Optometry, who will win in the mancala battle of the century?!”

Re: Othello Is Solved?

#129

Post by gtbcb »

I would love a Wikipedia list article of games that have been solved computationally and but also games where humans can still beat computers / AI, discussing the challenges and context behinds wins / losses.

Re: Othello Is Solved?

#130

Post by qubex »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #89

This is cool. I solved a simpler game about 15 years ago that my brother and I used to play: an African game with about 10 pits on each side of the board that hold stones. I coded up an alpha-beta engine for it, and discovered crazy always win strategies to match how my brother and I played. Suddenly I would win all the games, and then he never wanted to play again. This was a classic match up of a computer scientist…

I did something similar for my (then) favourite game Pentago, with similar results: I drained all the fun from it.
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