Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#211

Post by safety1st » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 3:28 PM UTC

btbuildem wrote: post #157

OP's premise of "living for free" seems to mean "not pay taxes" and "use what resources are available". I wonder what the motivation is here, I've heard this sentiment expressed many times. It usually seems to imply "away from others". Looking back at the millennia of human history, we've always formed communities, always assumed more-or-less specialized roles, and always used some form of debt to manage the social f…

I mean have you not read Walden? This idea of being more self-reliant and independent is popular with a lot of people, it's a central precept of certain schools of philosophy and ethics as well. No, they weren't all miserable hermits who died young. If you don't like that lifestyle it's fine, but you don't need to pee in everyone else's Wheaties.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#212

Post by zzzzzzzza » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 3:28 PM UTC

bilsbie wrote: post #69

I think it would be cool if we had a kind of non religious Amish type communities.

eastwind or twin oaks intentional communities

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#213

Post by dsq » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 3:29 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #187

beedeebeedee wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Looking back at the millennia of human history, we've always formed communities, always assumed more-or-less specialized roles, and always used some form of debt to manage the social fabric and facilitate the exchange of goods and services. I would say it is the opposite. Looking back at the millenia of human history, it is people migrating. Successive waves out of Africa and across the continents, and everywhere e…

The average human did not moved anywhere majority of the history and the groups on the move typically stopped moving when they found a place they could settle in. Migration waves happened, but those were notable events cause by something rather then norm. They also usually or often involved people moving in groups rather then alone.

Those who lost the war ran away to avoid being eradicated.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#214

Post by dmoy » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 3:29 PM UTC

Podgajski wrote: post #150

ysavir wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you consider to be the ideal solution?

If I had a simple clean studio I would be fine. I am not asking for much, just clean and stable. But even a mess of a studio costs $800 a month which I can’t afford. even if I had a place to park that was stable I wouldn’t mind either. Just something close to a town with food and place to shower, etc.

> even a mess of a studio costs $800 a month which I can’t afford

There are definitely cities in the Midwest where you can get studios for <$500/mo still.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#215

Post by caskstrength » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 3:29 PM UTC

unflxw wrote: post #172

caskstrength wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EDIT: As this is collecting downvotes quite quickly, would any of the downvoters care to explain their stance? Any discussion of social and/or economic issues on HN always attracts hordes of Tesla-driving SV champagne socialists.

I see this sentiment expressed often, but I don't quite get it. Is the implication that if you personally enjoy a high standard of living through capitalism, it is therefore hypocritical to advocate for everyone to enjoy a high standard of living through socialism? How come? (I am asking this question in good faith. Note that at no point I am stating that socialism would or could actually achieve a high standard of l…

> I am asking this question in good faith.

I appreciate and will honestly try express my point of view on this issue in good faith and without being too snarky.

> I am neither interested in having that discussion or claiming that position. Please don't reply with a Wikipedia copy-paste about the great famine

Actually I come from a Ukrainian family that was affected by Holodomor, so I don't need Wikipedia to reason about the subject but okay, let's drop it.

> Is the implication that if you personally enjoy a high standard of living through capitalism, it is therefore hypocritical to advocate for everyone to enjoy a high standard of living through socialism? How come?

I think champagne socialist brigade on HN is a wealthy people who already got theirs (house in SV that they bought long time ago and which appreciated to several million dollars price today, maxed Roth IRA for decade+ that they weren't even supposed to be eligible to but still got via shenanigans of their corporate employers, etc.), now they just pulling up the ladder and basically suggesting newcomers to consider paying their healthcare cost during their retirement or something (don't know why but those people always enamored with European-style single payer healthcare for no good reason). Now, try to suggest to those people to fund their leftist inclinations by heavily taxing actual wealth and inheritance and they quickly come up with all kinds of convoluted answers why that is a bad approach that would never work...

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#216

Post by PeterisP » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 3:31 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #130

em500 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obtaining a vessel that can reach international waters (let alone one that enables you to survive there for a long time) is quite expensive.

It's not hard to get a decent sail boat that would do the trick for well under $50k. For under $100k you're living large (literally). While that is not nothing, it's a heck of a lot less than we're all going to spent on rent (or mortgage) plus gas, car insurance, car payments, parking, house insurance, electricity, water and all the rest. "Cheap" is relative I guess.

Maintenance on that boat will be far more than maintenance of a home even if you do most of the labor yourself; gas on that boat will be more than the gas of your car and the electricity bill; you'll spend more on maintaining the water pumping and filtering than you pay for water in your home, mooring fees to dock for your supplies will be far more than you've ever paid for parking a car, etc, etc.

"Cheap" is relative, but you're comparing apples with oranges if you compare the purchase price of a boat to all the expenses of living in a house - all the expenses are still there, and everything is more expensive in the sea.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#217

Post by beedeebeedee » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 3:33 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #187

beedeebeedee wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Looking back at the millennia of human history, we've always formed communities, always assumed more-or-less specialized roles, and always used some form of debt to manage the social fabric and facilitate the exchange of goods and services. I would say it is the opposite. Looking back at the millenia of human history, it is people migrating. Successive waves out of Africa and across the continents, and everywhere e…

The average human did not moved anywhere majority of the history and the groups on the move typically stopped moving when they found a place they could settle in. Migration waves happened, but those were notable events cause by something rather then norm. They also usually or often involved people moving in groups rather then alone.

> The average human did not moved anywhere majority of the history and the groups on the move typically stopped moving when they found a place they could settle in.

First thing, there really is no 'average' human that you can speak of without extensive qualifications about what you mean.

An enormous amount of people lived their lives nomadically up until recently. I don't just mean in North America but across Siberia into Europe, as well as in Africa and Australia and many other places.

If you go by sheer quantity of people (starting with anatomically modern humans) that would outweigh any sedentary people.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#218

Post by coryrc » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 3:34 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #66

keiferski wrote: post #15

It's interesting how quality of life baselines have increased so much in the last century. If you wanted to have the QOL of someone that lived in the American West a hundred years ago, it could be done today for probably $100 a month all-inclusive of food, clothing, and shelter. But you'd be eating the same 5-10 things repeatedly, wearing the same clothes, have a few books for entertainment, minimal or no electronics…

> but with the nature of marketing and social pressure, almost no one is willing to make that kind of sacrifice today. Maybe people prefer having pressurized clean tap water and sewer systems due to something other than marketing and social pressure. I know the women in my life would definitely prefer it compared to my grandmothers who had to travel to get water from the well everyday.

The Romans had running water and sewer systems.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#219

Post by watwut » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 3:35 PM UTC

defrost wrote: post #10

danbruc wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is also immoral. EDIT: As this is collecting downvotes quite quickly, would any of the downvoters care to explain their stance?

'It' ? What exactly is immoral and why?

Not OP, but imo, these subsidies exists so that people who have issues can get by. And that is a good thing.

Just making decision to live off that and spend time doing hobbies is abusing good thing and asocial. People who openly advocate for something like that are endangering existence of those programs for those who really need it because of mental health or physical issues.

Moreover, those programs typically comes with social workers and requirements designed to make you change your life. You should cooperate with that goal so that you cease to be so dependent.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#220

Post by Podgajski » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 3:35 PM UTC

MichaelZuo wrote: post #205

bigfudge wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

psychologically, though, it’s much easier to suffer hardship. If everyone in your community is also suffering the same hardship. Making unilateral choices to deny yourself, creature comfort doesn’t seem all tha likely to succeed as a strategy.

Maybe not for the median person, but many types of people do succeed with it, such as ascetic monks, stoics, many religious sects, etc...

And the reason for living such a simplistic life is to be a model for those of people who think that it can’t be done.

I have zero unhappiness about the way I live, my problem is other people make it hard for me to live this simplistic life.

I just read that some sociopath is trying to make it illegal for people to live intense in the UK. That’s what I’m talking about.