Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#121

Post by CJefferson » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 1:56 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #52

softg wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This was typical, to be expected a century ago, but with the nature of marketing and social pressure It might be typical and expected but that doesn't mean it was desirable even then. People lived that way because they had to. It was always considered a difficult way of life. It's more likely that people gave it up as soon as they could when they had the chance. I think there are two different concepts here. You ca…

You don’t need to go back that far. Even the quality of life circa 1950 would be very inexpensive to have today. But then you have less electronics, toys, clothes, food variety etc. This would cost more than $100 a month today, but it would be dramatically cheaper than the typical modern lifestyle. With remote work, I’m not sure you really need transportation. If you do, a bicycle is $50. But again I’m not sure why y…

Where could I have a heated, waterproof, space with running water and electricity for $100/month, or even close to that? Lots of people live in houses that were around in 1950, without significant changes, and none of them are paying $100/month for rent, water and electricity.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#122

Post by EMM_386 » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 1:57 PM UTC

bilsbie wrote: post #69

I think it would be cool if we had a kind of non religious Amish type communities.

> I think it would be cool if we had a kind of non religious Amish type communities.

These sorts of things do exist, but they tend not to survive very long.

There are too many varibles, such as how to keep an income stream to support it, as money is still required to keep it going. Some sort of agreement has to be reached between everyone on how much is expected to be contributed every month. This is the same as an Amish community.

These communities are something people seek out and then try to join, not something really something most members would be born into. You end up with having to actually screen applicants, to ensure they can provide and won't be a burden.

Eventually these sort community experiments fail due to the above and more.

There are rare exceptions that have this figured out and have managed to make it work for years and decades, but they managed to solve these types of issues. But those are likely not "come live among us" perfect communities that many were looking for. And they come with fine print about what is realistically to be expected and required, including how much money you can will be payinging every month.

Rare exceptions are out othere that have been around for a long time, but to live there you will have to apply, be screened and meet the requirements, you will be paying a certain amount every month, following all the rules, etc. At which point it begins to blur ... what is making this stand out to the point people are applying to get in?

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#123

Post by keiferski » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 1:59 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #118

keiferski wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment was from the viewpoint of an individual today. That’s what it says. It doesn’t say anything about society as a whole. So, no, an individual is not paying for train lines and ports from their personal budget. Perhaps there are some people who spend 90%+ of their income on food, shelter, and electricity, but I’m fairly certain that the majority of costs are “unnecessary” consumer goods.

Taxes, home, healthcare, food, vehicle (or transportation), education, retirement savings. A portion of this might be discretionary, and it is very subjective, but I doubt you are getting anywhere near $100 per month in “necessary” consumer goods in the US. Healthcare alone will blow through that, and not sure where you will draw the line on necessary and unnecessary for that. People at some point in their lives migh…

Then make it a thousand dollars a month. $12,000 a year is still way below anything most people consider a normal modern income.

Again; you’re missing the bigger point entirely and fixating on specific numbers that I threw out as a quick example.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#124

Post by grecy » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 1:59 PM UTC

freetime2 wrote: post #32

Took me a minute to recognize that “City bus in Alaska” is a reference to Christopher McCandless of “Into the Wild” fame. Honestly if I decided that I wanted to withdraw from society, I’d probably go to Alaska too. Not that I have any reason to believe I would fare much better than McCandless.

I hiked into the bus [1], and eventually spent 4 years living in the Yukon. I've ventured all over Yukon and Alaska, and met some very, very interesting people.

There are absolutely people living in the middle of absolutely nowhere, doing as they please. Growing their own food, hunting their own meat. Summers have incredibly long days and an abundance of food, winters are cold, dark and long. Plenty of people work something like a month or two a year to pay for basics they want to have.

I once met a family that built their own "log cabin house" in Telegraph Creek, Canada (Pretty remote little town). They worked their land, had a few kids and kept to themselves. The mother went to work for 8 weeks that year as a camp cook in a mine, and she was quite annoyed - that was the most she had ever had to "work" in a year, and she was around 50.

[1] theroadchoseme.com/the-magic-bus

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#125

Post by lotsofpulp » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 2:00 PM UTC

vivekd wrote: post #119

lotsofpulp wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine many women would disagree. Or the people who just got back from WW1, and are about to send their kids to WW2.

Right, but staying on topic in terms of available material goods and income, I don't think available goods and resources was as bad as this thread was making it out to be

Are antibiotics and vaccines and other healthcare “available material goods”?

I had two great grandmothers that lost the majority of their children as babies/toddlers.

I think a lot of people are not accounting for the costs of risks during that time. If everything went well, the rain was on time, no other nations attacked, no one fell ill, there were no birthing complications, then life was okay. But nature usually throws a few curveballs.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#126

Post by caskstrength » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 2:00 PM UTC

danbruc wrote: post #9

pavlov wrote: post #7

If you’re a citizen or legal resident of a Nordic country, you’ll get paid basic subsistence when you have no other income. In Finland this is around 500 euros / month. There are lots of empty houses in the remote countryside in Finland (and I presume the same is true for parts of Sweden and Norway). You can probably rent something for next to nothing, or even make a deal with the owner to stay for free in exchange f…

It is also immoral. EDIT: As this is collecting downvotes quite quickly, would any of the downvoters care to explain their stance?

> EDIT: As this is collecting downvotes quite quickly, would any of the downvoters care to explain their stance?

Any discussion of social and/or economic issues on HN always attracts hordes of Tesla-driving SV champagne socialists.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#127

Post by keiferski » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 2:02 PM UTC

chongli wrote: post #117

jasode wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I am somewhat surprised that there aren't more cheap-living communes in the US. A few thousand dollars could probably pay the living expenses of a few dozen people – assuming they are all on-board with such a materially minimalist lifestyle. A monastery of nuns or monks is something like that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosed_religious_orders Even though the members live a minimal lifestyle of near-poverty, ma…

One thing everyone forgets is that the Amish people benefit from police and national defence, like everyone else. Their simple, peaceful life would not be possible if they comprised their own sovereign nation in a region surrounded by hostile actors. With no military of their own, they’d be annexed instantly. This means they aren’t truly independent. They’re dependent in a way they could never afford to pay for thems…

Do they claim to be truly independent? Or just to operate in the way they want to inside the same system as everyone else?

The relevant comparison here is to other citizens, not to other states.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#128

Post by caskstrength » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 2:02 PM UTC

pavlov wrote: post #25

kzrdude wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That support comes with requirements and they will try to get you "reintegrated" and into a job so that you can support yourself. To use it as a salary with no intention to work is not according to the purpose of this service.

Another way to look at this would be in the context of subsidies aimed at less populated areas of the country. A lot of people are concerned about the countryside going empty, and there are various policies aimed at reversing or at least halting that. They are necessarily income-transfer programs where cities subsidize the countryside. An individual getting paid 500 euros to live in a remote area doesn’t seem like a…

> A lot of people are concerned about the countryside going empty, and there are various policies aimed at reversing or at least halting that. They are necessarily income-transfer programs where cities subsidize the countryside.

I wonder why. I would love to empty and re-wild more countryside.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#129

Post by lotsofpulp » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 2:04 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #123

lotsofpulp wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes, home, healthcare, food, vehicle (or transportation), education, retirement savings. A portion of this might be discretionary, and it is very subjective, but I doubt you are getting anywhere near $100 per month in “necessary” consumer goods in the US. Healthcare alone will blow through that, and not sure where you will draw the line on necessary and unnecessary for that. People at some point in their lives migh…

Then make it a thousand dollars a month. $12,000 a year is still way below anything most people consider a normal modern income. Again; you’re missing the bigger point entirely and fixating on specific numbers that I threw out as a quick example.

Sure, and you are willing to forego the services of any healthcare professional? Because most people consider being able to go to the emergency room as “normal”.

My point was to dispute this overly simplistic assertion:

>but with the nature of marketing and social pressure, almost no one is willing to make that kind of sacrifice today.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#130

Post by grecy » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 2:04 PM UTC

em500 wrote: post #33

oska wrote: post #16

International waters (the 'high seas') are free and represent about 50% of the world's surface

Obtaining a vessel that can reach international waters (let alone one that enables you to survive there for a long time) is quite expensive.

It's not hard to get a decent sail boat that would do the trick for well under $50k. For under $100k you're living large (literally).

While that is not nothing, it's a heck of a lot less than we're all going to spent on rent (or mortgage) plus gas, car insurance, car payments, parking, house insurance, electricity, water and all the rest.

"Cheap" is relative I guess.