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Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

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Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#181

Post by jncfhnb »

mhb wrote: post #154
jncfhnb wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your fable states that there is a time for work and a time for play, and contrasts a worker that did nothing vs workers that did work and can survive. The premise of the relevant discussion is that the marginal value of additional work and wages beyond the basic requirements is largely nothing. You cannot accrue meaningful savings, but still probably have enough disposable income to live comfortably enough, so it’s j…

And the point of the fable is that the ants understand that the marginal value of working now includes future benefits, whereas the grasshopper doesn't. The original comment doesn't really seem worth debating. People would rather work less because they ascribe greater value to their contribution than potential employers. Fine.

No it’s not equivalent. The young folks do want to work. They don’t want to work the last bit because they’re not being given anything of meaningful value. This is not the case of the grasshopper. Nor is it similar to the ants.

Marginal utility changed with each unit.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#182

Post by Clubber »

coldpie wrote: post #163
Clubber wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of mid sized cities with reasonable housing and decent job prospects with a reasonable commute (< 30m). I know, I live in one of them.

Which one? This used to be true where I live (Twin Cities area, Minnesota) but is no longer. Prices have really exploded pretty much everywhere over the past 10 years, my home purchased in 2013 is now worth about double. It's easy to miss if you haven't been on the market.

I haven't checked in a while. In my city there are still reasonable houses (I don't want to say for obvious reasons), but I bought mine in the early 2000s and it only recently doubled. I just looked and you can still find fixer-uppers in not great neighborhoods for under $100K, but you can live in them with electric/water and all that.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#183

Post by SamuelAdams »

DangitBobby wrote: post #35
SamuelAdams wrote: post #25

If they (or you, or anyone) want a 4 day work week, then why not pick a profession that allows it? Most healthcare related fields work in 12 hour shifts, so working 3-4 days a week is the normal standard. Not every professional job is an office job 9-5.

No sweat, let me just go back to school and learn to be a healthcare professional.

I never said it would be easy: most things in life that are important are not easy.

The point is that there are many different types of jobs with a variety of benefits, including non-traditional scheduling. If that is something important to you, why not work towards it?

Healthcare is just one example. It’s not perfect either, there are problems for sure. But that is ok for some people who value something like a 3-4 day work week. No job is perfect, it’s all about what trade offs make it worth it to the employee.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#184

Post by dutchCourage »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #167
dutchCourage wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Im more inclined to believe the lazy mentality is from lifestyle and cultural stemming. Its cool to not care or try. And according to instagram if you're not a millionaire by age 25 then you're a loser. So why even try? I'm assuming this is why you're being downvoted. It sounds like you're calling the new generation lazy, though I see now that it wasn't necessarily your intent. Personally I fully understand those w…

>It sounds like you're calling the new generation lazy, though I see now that it wasn't necessarily your intent. I think there is a lot of data that says the latest generation is the most cynical and jaded yet. There is some crossover between cynicism and motivation. Of course if you ask them, it isn't cynicism, it is realism. >It's just a generation that had their basic needs taken care of and are now getting their…

I'm sure you'll find some overly idealistic people in the mix, but the article mentions clear trade-offs that young workers are willing to take.

Some of them are willing to take a pay cut in order to work less, and they're being called lazy for it. My argument is that it's not laziness, it's the belief that they're better off fostering their personal relationships and passions than adding the extra money in their bank account.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#185

Post by hombre_fatal »

potatoman22 wrote: post #15
hombre_fatal wrote: post #3

I took a $50k job in my late 20s just for full remote with no calls/meetings, just Github issues and a chat app for synchronization. I felt pathetic accepting the offer especially after my counteroffer was rejected (imagine your bluff failing here, lmao), but I remembered sitting in meetings for a higher paying job fantasizing about how I'd give half my salary away just to have no meetings and living on a beach surfi…

Was it worth it? How'd they keep their commitment to no calls/meetings? I'd be worried about the employer reneging on that.

It wasn't an agreement. It was just how they operated.

It was worth it at the time. But I'm back in the States looking for work after years abroad and can feel the pressure of having a less impressive resume, no big names on my resume, and no US network.

Sometimes I look around at people my age who own property and make six figures and I feel so underachieved. But then I consider how miserable I was working in Austin before I went abroad and I can't think of a better way to have spent my 20s (for me).

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#186

Post by medo-bear »

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #118
medo-bear wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as far as worker rights go, i think australian workers have it better than in most countries. in places in eu like austria you even have "sicky police" that go to check up on you when you are sick. lol i dont think something like this would fly in 'straya. to be clear im not talking about full on compo and insurance companies hiring private investigators. im talking about calling your boss and telling him/her that yo…

> in europe? im actually the opposite. i miss the great variety of great restaurants in sydney and melbourne Yeah that's what I mean - harder to get good east Asian and Middle Eastern in Europe - although there's more African food here (Europe) than straya.

yep i miss viet pho and leb chicken. thai food is a train wreck in europe. there are some really good chinese restaurants but they are far and few between. best one is in lisbon. however there are some really good places for good food and just general good vibes. if one likes these sort of things i recommend visiting belgrade

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#187

Post by hombre_fatal »

__s wrote: post #8
hombre_fatal wrote: post #3

I took a $50k job in my late 20s just for full remote with no calls/meetings, just Github issues and a chat app for synchronization. I felt pathetic accepting the offer especially after my counteroffer was rejected (imagine your bluff failing here, lmao), but I remembered sitting in meetings for a higher paying job fantasizing about how I'd give half my salary away just to have no meetings and living on a beach surfi…

How long ago was this? & where? My first job in 2012 was 30k/year, after that 25k/year in 2015. & these are CAD, not USD. I didn't feel pathetic, I felt lucky getting to stay inside during the winter instead of working 12/hr flooring Guess it's harder when you've had the higher salary already. For me I'd skipped college, so was building a resume

My first job out of uni in 2011 was 50k USD as a Ruby on Rails software dev in Austin.

What feels pathetic is when, 10 years later, you are making the same salary again. But at least I was surfing on a beach in Mexico this time around. I was really happy. Maybe that's priceless.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#188

Post by HappMacDonald »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #167
dutchCourage wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Im more inclined to believe the lazy mentality is from lifestyle and cultural stemming. Its cool to not care or try. And according to instagram if you're not a millionaire by age 25 then you're a loser. So why even try? I'm assuming this is why you're being downvoted. It sounds like you're calling the new generation lazy, though I see now that it wasn't necessarily your intent. Personally I fully understand those w…

>It sounds like you're calling the new generation lazy, though I see now that it wasn't necessarily your intent. I think there is a lot of data that says the latest generation is the most cynical and jaded yet. There is some crossover between cynicism and motivation. Of course if you ask them, it isn't cynicism, it is realism. >It's just a generation that had their basic needs taken care of and are now getting their…

> but also have a quaint country home I have never heard a human being complain about wanting "a quaint country home", or pose any permutation of requirements that might approximate that.

Perhaps the closest concern I have ever encountered on that front is "where do I put my stuff?" because US culture on average certainly does a lot more hoarding than nearly anywhere else in the world. But that's less to do with square footage of living space and more to do with square footage available to store hoarded items.

EG: such folk (now narrowing perspective to anecdotes of room mates I've had) often wind up placated by access to space in the garage plus a rented storage unit that they literally never visit between when they move in with us and when they move back out perhaps a year or two later.

Our place is a three bedroom unit within a triplex building built in the late 70s and falling apart. Its' rent has recently increased to close to half of all of our net incomes combined. We would like to live somewhere within walking distance (a mile?) of basic necessities, that we can afford, and if its not too much to ask perhaps also is not falling apart.

Number of square feet holds no interest to us but number of bedrooms would be nice so that each adult can have one to sleep in.

My apologies if that strikes you as too "quaint" and you'd rather force us to live 50 miles from the nearest store beyond the reach of basic utilities just because then the rent and/or mortgage payments would be half what we get here.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#189

Post by s1artibartfast »

dutchCourage wrote: post #184
s1artibartfast wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It sounds like you're calling the new generation lazy, though I see now that it wasn't necessarily your intent. I think there is a lot of data that says the latest generation is the most cynical and jaded yet. There is some crossover between cynicism and motivation. Of course if you ask them, it isn't cynicism, it is realism. >It's just a generation that had their basic needs taken care of and are now getting their…

I'm sure you'll find some overly idealistic people in the mix, but the article mentions clear trade-offs that young workers are willing to take. Some of them are willing to take a pay cut in order to work less, and they're being called lazy for it. My argument is that it's not laziness, it's the belief that they're better off fostering their personal relationships and passions than adding the extra money in their ban…

I don't disagree. My comment was more about the general malaise and Outlook in Generation Z. That said, I don't think the article really supports the idea that they would readily trade time for money. Only 13% of the respondents said that, which is pretty Slim. I wonder what the crossover is between those respondents and the top 10% earners.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#190

Post by 13of40 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #122
13of40 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the same as it's ever been. Out of three random employees, you have one who's just going through the motions, one who's working hard, and one who's actively hostile. Which one gets the money when review time rolls around? That, and what's the long term strategy? Do they turn 30 and flip from working part time at Pizza Hut to a professional salaried career? Good luck getting an interview with that CV. I'm not…

GP's point is that the extra money has little value, because your spending options are becoming bimodal in distribution: all the trinkets are priced at "approximately anyone with a job can afford some of it", while the important bits like housing are priced at "an order of magnitude more than people typically earn", and this gap just cannot be crossed by working hard to get salary raises.

Let's consider some actual numbers, though: In 1999 I got my first "corporate" job at a starting salary of $50K. I was paying $800 a month for a two bedroom apartment, and what was left over was enough to comfortably support me and my wife. Entry level salary for the same job is now about $120K, meaning someone in that position can easily afford to pay $1920 a month for rent. According to Zillow, that same apartment is now renting for $2305 a month.

So what we're hand-wringing about is a ~$385 increase in rent, which comes to about 4% more of the person's gross salary than 25 years ago. That sucks a little bit, but it's not a catastrophe.

And on top of that, you can still make a ton of side money through bonuses and stock, in the industry that I assume we're mostly talking about. A few months ago I gave a $90K stock grant to a guy. Even if the stock price stagnates, that on its own is almost half his housing costs for the next five years, and it's all because he works harder than the guy in the next cube over.

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