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Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

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Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#161

Post by DontchaKnowit »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #7

Young people don't want to work hard because there's little incentive. No matter how hard you work, unless you're in the top 5%, you're far priced out of most places most people want to live. You can afford everything comfortably beside housing & health care (which you don't need much of when you're young) on a relatively low wage in the US. So you've pretty much given up on housing. What's the point in working hard?

As someone living in a low cost of living area (happily) and working in an unsexy but profitable tech job that was basically begging to hire anyone with a degree, I really dont understand this rhetoric.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#162

Post by francisofascii »

LeanderK wrote: post #111

I've seen some strange criticisms after a friend of mine transitioned to a 4-day week. Like whether he has any ambitions, doesn't want to work etc. He is a very committed, good programmer really kinda keeping the company running. I bet he gets more stuff done in 4 days than others in 5. But he has a very active private, social life. He goes a lot on vacations, has hobbies or is just actively enjoying life. He's also…

Who criticizes him?

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#163

Post by coldpie »

Clubber wrote: post #149
kyubey wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to work and have a life, stop living where jobs are! Simply don't make adequate money to survive! Simply die! Being unaware of reality is also a personal issue too, bud.

There are a lot of mid sized cities with reasonable housing and decent job prospects with a reasonable commute (< 30m). I know, I live in one of them.

Which one? This used to be true where I live (Twin Cities area, Minnesota) but is no longer. Prices have really exploded pretty much everywhere over the past 10 years, my home purchased in 2013 is now worth about double. It's easy to miss if you haven't been on the market.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#164

Post by bonton89 »

mhb wrote: post #14
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #7

Young people don't want to work hard because there's little incentive. No matter how hard you work, unless you're in the top 5%, you're far priced out of most places most people want to live. You can afford everything comfortably beside housing & health care (which you don't need much of when you're young) on a relatively low wage in the US. So you've pretty much given up on housing. What's the point in working hard?

The Ants and the Grasshopper - Aesop https://read.gov/aesop/052.html

The modern version has both the ant and the grasshopper freezing together as the ant was laid off and booted out at the start of winter after the larder stocking was finished. There just wasn't much work to be done in the winter and since productivity was down the hive would be more vital without the now useless ant.

They both freeze to death but at least the grasshopper had fun during the short summer first.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#165

Post by saulpw »

The_Colonel wrote: post #144
onion2k wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 4 day work week is not '4 days work for 80% of the money'. A 4 day work week today means working 4 days a week for the same money as a person working 5 days a week. Depending on the company that's either 10 hours a day for 4 days a week, or more commonly it's an 8 hour day for 4 days a week with an assumption (proven in many studies) than people work harder with less downtime for that 8 hours so consequently get th…

> more commonly it's an 8 hour day for 4 days a week with an assumption (proven in many studies) When I looked at these studies, the productivity was measured by company's revenue, so it was pretty much useless. > people work harder with less downtime for that 8 hours so consequently get the same amount of work done as their 10-hour-4-days and 5-day-week counterparts. Maybe it works that way for some people, but I do…

> Personal anecdote - I don't work full 40 with full intensity, I do slack a lot. But it's not like I work hard for the first 32 hours and then slack all Friday. It's more like I work hard for 2 hours and then slack for the next hour, because the mental load is just too intense.

I felt this way too, but it's a reaction to chronic brain tiredness. When I was working a 4 day workweek, I remember noticing on Tuesday that I only had a couple of days until the end of the week, so I better buckle down if I wanted to get something done. And then I did. Having that reliable 3-day weekend meant that I really focused on work when I was at work. And I was able to schedule "bank appointments" on my Friday off, instead of having to take time during the workweek.

I know it seems like wishful thinking, but I was demonstrably more productive, more sustainably, in that 4-day/week job, than any 5-day/week job I've ever had.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#166

Post by yardie »

jollofricepeas wrote: post #143
yardie wrote: post #12

Moving back to the US after living abroad I was used to month long holidays. I applied to a few companies and tried to negotiate 5 weeks PTO. They wouldn't budge. Then 4 weeks. Still no. I offered to drop my salary in exchange for vacation. Still no. I asked HR why everything else was negotiable except PTO and they told me I would have more time off then people who've been there for 7+ years. This was my first clue t…

This is interesting. In the US, I have found that what HR will tell you is different than what your hiring manager will enforce. My hiring managers were often much more permissive and allowed 4 day work weeks and “unlimited” time off provided it was not detrimental to the team. This also meant that when there was a legitimate emergency; they expected you to assist. I have heard many horror stories but have been luck…

Unofficial requests are exactly that. We don't like planning long, expensive trips based on what the manager is feeling that week or quarter.

I've circled the sun long enough (and dealt with enough military recruiters, LOL) to know that you get it all in writing. Any implied or verbal agreements aren't really worth much.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#167

Post by s1artibartfast »

dutchCourage wrote: post #92
trident5000 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep hearing this but home ownership percentage is comparable to past generations when you actually look at the data. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RHORUSQ156N Also gen z has surpassed millennials and genx in home ownership (with comparable timing). ""In 2022, 30% of 25-year-olds owned a home. At the same age 28% of millennials, and 27% of Gen Xers owned homes, according to real estate brokerage, Redfin."" htt…

> Im more inclined to believe the lazy mentality is from lifestyle and cultural stemming. Its cool to not care or try. And according to instagram if you're not a millionaire by age 25 then you're a loser. So why even try? I'm assuming this is why you're being downvoted. It sounds like you're calling the new generation lazy, though I see now that it wasn't necessarily your intent. Personally I fully understand those w…

>It sounds like you're calling the new generation lazy, though I see now that it wasn't necessarily your intent.

I think there is a lot of data that says the latest generation is the most cynical and jaded yet. There is some crossover between cynicism and motivation. Of course if you ask them, it isn't cynicism, it is realism.

>It's just a generation that had their basic needs taken care of and are now getting their priorities straight.

I think there are is a bit of wanting to have the cake and eat it too. A desire to live a dense urban life, but also have a quaint country home. A desire to be financially independent, but also follow their passions.

In short, I think they have been taught and sold a contradictory set of ideals and desires.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#168

Post by LeanderK »

francisofascii wrote: post #162
LeanderK wrote: post #111

I've seen some strange criticisms after a friend of mine transitioned to a 4-day week. Like whether he has any ambitions, doesn't want to work etc. He is a very committed, good programmer really kinda keeping the company running. I bet he gets more stuff done in 4 days than others in 5. But he has a very active private, social life. He goes a lot on vacations, has hobbies or is just actively enjoying life. He's also…

Who criticizes him?

Not colleagues, but people outside his work (it's an advanced startup, so everyone still knows everyone). For example older relatives or random people who found out he works 80%. Sometimes it's really a random condescending person.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#169

Post by 62951413 »

yardie wrote: post #12

Moving back to the US after living abroad I was used to month long holidays. I applied to a few companies and tried to negotiate 5 weeks PTO. They wouldn't budge. Then 4 weeks. Still no. I offered to drop my salary in exchange for vacation. Still no. I asked HR why everything else was negotiable except PTO and they told me I would have more time off then people who've been there for 7+ years. This was my first clue t…

I don't know about the US but in the Bay Area PTO hasn't been negotiable for about seven years. It's all "unlimited" now and so there are no official numbers to compare anymore.

The good news is that in large publicly traded companies people routinely fly back to India for a month so 4-week vacations are a thing if you are good at leetcode.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#170

Post by antisthenes »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #7

Young people don't want to work hard because there's little incentive. No matter how hard you work, unless you're in the top 5%, you're far priced out of most places most people want to live. You can afford everything comfortably beside housing & health care (which you don't need much of when you're young) on a relatively low wage in the US. So you've pretty much given up on housing. What's the point in working hard?

> No matter how hard you work, unless you're in the top 5%, you're far priced out of most places most people want to live.

That's not even true. I have a large set of anecdata, with people below median income buying houses, and people in the 5% being afraid to buy a house (too risk averse to the point of being detrimental).

If owning a house is your priority, you will make it work. My conclusion is that a large set of people just don't have the basic skills to maintain a house, or simply don't want that responsibility, despite being able to afford it.

> So you've pretty much given up on housing. What's the point in working hard?

What's your plan for when you're 50, broke and almost unemployable due to ageism? Who's going to rent to you and how will you afford it? Are you going to be a squatter? Do you plan to wait until your parents die and live off the inheritance?

That's cool if you don't have answers to those questions when you're 22-25, but what about 35+, like most millennials now are?

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