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How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

ycombinator.com

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Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#111

Post by raincom »

ekidd wrote: post #98
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

> So the CEO can sit on his hands the whole time the product is developed, but then does reap huge gains. I think this is almost always false. And I say this as someone who has worked with many startups, and who has been both a lead engineer and a CTO. I have seen so many startups fail because either: 1. They cannot talk to customers, or 2. They cannot close deals. It is absolutely shocking how many startups have put…

Yes, you have a great point: folks who close deals, who talk to customers, who finds prospects are NOT parasites, even though they can make more than the hard working engineers. The real parasites are elsewhere.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#112

Post by mattgreenrocks »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

An IC variant of this I see:

1. Climb to highest rung that is readily handed out on IC ladder

2. Agree to take on more leadership/management tasks, or even go full-time. (Impact, amirite)

3. After a few years: job hop elsewhere, using your combined tech and management experience

4. Enter at staff/principal, skipping the sometimes brutal process of getting there directly from IC.

Like the OP, this exploits the fact that the highest leverage you have is entering an org

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#113

Post by eikenberry »

onion2k wrote: post #16
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

while bossing around engineers much smarter than you How much smarter than you are they if you've taken an effective shortcut to getting paid significantly more while doing a lot less work? Working harder, taking all the stress, and earning less doesn't sound that smart.

Money isn't a linear curve where $$$==happiness. More money does have a strong correspondence with happiness until you hit a certain level and then it falls off. A case of strongly diminishing returns where other sources of happiness will outweigh the need for more money. Things like liking your job being a big factor.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#114

Post by blueboo »

dilyevsky wrote: post #54
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

That's a nice fantasy but most technically minded folks will quickly discover that political savviness required to pull this off is in fact a skill and the one they generally don't possess. Also, watch the hands: > 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role.

I worry this whole comment chain is celebrating a coping mechanism of troglodytic engineering, that the ideal is to shape artisanal code-crystals undisturbed in a cave. We all wish there was a simple meritocracy of crystal-fashioning, with the master diamondsmiths sat at the top. If only, enough said.

The political savviness so scorned by the in-the-trenches coder might actually be communication, capacity for broader context, strategic foresight, emotional intelligence to debug and optimise teams, among the many other skills required to execute a product/project beyond programming. And good leads will pluck coders showing these skills out of the engineering corps and set them on a TPM track.

Perhaps it is only rarely the case. But it seems fair to observe that it is gentler on the ego to cast these rare and hard-earned skills as “playing the game”, PM mumbled-jumbo, etc.

At the same time, operators in bad faith tend to deploy just these skills, and a bad experience can incline one to wash their hands of it all and crave the rough diamonds of the cave…

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#115

Post by chiefalchemist »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

> There's no easy answer, as many engineers do not have the soft skills for the role. But arguably, they could run these businesses themselves.

Can you clarify this? They don't have soft skills? (And perhaps lacking in biz skills, e.g., working understanding of marketing?) But still they can run the company?

My experience has been different. Technology is relatively the easy part. People? On the other hand? People - leading, managing, marketing to them, etc. - is 10x more difficult. Human behavior is a complicated system. It's not something you can throw a couple of engineers at and poof! X weeks later you have a semi-perfect solution.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#116

Post by catlover76 »

Berone wrote: post #37
satvikpendem wrote: post #9

One of the top comments on the YouTube video attached to the article talks about how someone wasted their 20s working as the founding engineer (employee #6 of a 6-person startup) and when the company exited for $100 MM, they only got 100k and are still working at 40 years of age while the other 5, presumably having cofounder-level equity, are retired. This is the true risk of startups, and, if you're looking to maxim…

The path to getting into these founder / c-suite roles is those founding engineer roles in which you can learn how to scale and operate these ventures. The founding engineer role at 0.5% is not meant to be a role to retire on, but a stepping stone to those bigger roles.

The path to being a founder is actually founding. One doesn't need to be a "founding engineer" beforehand.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#117

Post by pseudalopex »

Zelphyr wrote: post #65
dboreham wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't it jwz who first widely pointed this out: startup stock is a lottery ticket. Nobody should take 1/2 wages because their boss gave them a lottery ticket.

And then, hilariously, he said, "I just happened to have won that particular lottery."

Why is it hilarious?

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#118

Post by AlexErrant »

purpleblue wrote: post #69

It's funny that YC is posting this video, because as far as I can tell, YC teaches its founders to keep most of the equity for themselves, and dole out as little equity as possible to their employees. Back during the dotcom days, most employees, from secretaries to engineers, got extremely rich from options when the company IPOed. These days, in order to make a life-changing amount of money at a YC startup as an empl…

> At YC, we tell our founders to be generous with equity, and even suggest giving 10% to the first 10 employees.

https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/filter-by-equity-at-yc-star....

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#119

Post by lazide »

Berone wrote: post #37
satvikpendem wrote: post #9

One of the top comments on the YouTube video attached to the article talks about how someone wasted their 20s working as the founding engineer (employee #6 of a 6-person startup) and when the company exited for $100 MM, they only got 100k and are still working at 40 years of age while the other 5, presumably having cofounder-level equity, are retired. This is the true risk of startups, and, if you're looking to maxim…

The path to getting into these founder / c-suite roles is those founding engineer roles in which you can learn how to scale and operate these ventures. The founding engineer role at 0.5% is not meant to be a role to retire on, but a stepping stone to those bigger roles.

Being a better wheel isn’t going to put one in the drivers seat - no matter how good of one they are.

That said, if someone is the type who pays attention and learns what is going on, being close enough to see certainly helps.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#120

Post by Aurornis »

satvikpendem wrote: post #9

One of the top comments on the YouTube video attached to the article talks about how someone wasted their 20s working as the founding engineer (employee #6 of a 6-person startup) and when the company exited for $100 MM, they only got 100k and are still working at 40 years of age while the other 5, presumably having cofounder-level equity, are retired. This is the true risk of startups, and, if you're looking to maxim…

> But getting "founding engineer" level equity on the order of 0.5% (before dilution!) seems to basically be a scam, where you're working 2x the amount for lower salaries than the market,

0.5% at an early stage with below market compensation, no refreshers with future rounds, negligible comp increase with future rounds, and below-market salary is indeed a scam. A lot of startups are happy to operate this way.

On the other hand, getting 0.5% equity in addition to market rate salary (or adjusted to market rate as soon as funding comes in) with refreshers on each raise to offset dilution and reasonable work life balance can be a very good deal.

I’ve worked for both types of startups. The first type quickly loses their best talent as they figure out they’re getting the short end of the stick. The second type can build a happy founding engineering team that grows with the company and wants to stay for the long term.

Fortunately, the internet has made it harder for companies to get away with the bad deal, below market rate, terrible WLB arrangement that was so common at startups a decade ago. Some people still get trapped by bad deals. Usually when you look at those companies giving bad deals it’s a small group of older founders managing a group of early 20s college grads who don’t yet know better.

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