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How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

ycombinator.com

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Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#61

Post by liquidpele »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #53
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

I can't believe the bar is generally lower if it's apparently that easy to get paid 400-500k after a few years. What are the barriers to entry?

It's not "after a few years", and plenty of people just fail completely at management. It's realistically the same "hack" as "jump around companies to get good raises" - i.e. companies will pay out to fill a position, but not to keep a position filled.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#62

Post by Seattle3503 »

Berone wrote: post #37
satvikpendem wrote: post #9

One of the top comments on the YouTube video attached to the article talks about how someone wasted their 20s working as the founding engineer (employee #6 of a 6-person startup) and when the company exited for $100 MM, they only got 100k and are still working at 40 years of age while the other 5, presumably having cofounder-level equity, are retired. This is the true risk of startups, and, if you're looking to maxim…

The path to getting into these founder / c-suite roles is those founding engineer roles in which you can learn how to scale and operate these ventures. The founding engineer role at 0.5% is not meant to be a role to retire on, but a stepping stone to those bigger roles.

It seems common enough that early engineers are purged for "higher quality talent" from the big companies at some point. Most of the high quality engineers won't join early on because they don't work for startup equity. Once the business is established and salaries are higher those FANG engineers are happy to join.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#63

Post by liquidpele »

VirusNewbie wrote: post #51
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The L6 TPM bar at amazon is way below the L6 SDE/SDM bar. Its not even close

If you have first hand experience, that's better than my anecdote so I will defer. I was going off of the job descriptions, which basically made it seem like an L6 TPM needed to be both an L6 SDE AND a PM. Very possible i'm wrong though.

TPMs are almost universally fluff positions. The amount they make is absurd for what they do. I will die on this hill.

PMs are often the same, although the position can have value if there's clear expectations and enough sales/customer complexity to warrant it.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#64

Post by nine_zeros »

teachrdan wrote: post #7
nine_zeros wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do not work at Amazon or amazon-like companies. They are just not worth it from a mental health, wlb, or career perspective for engineers. Find engineering/product first companies. Big tech ain't it any longer.

What would you recommend instead?

> What would you recommend instead?

My personal preference and risk appetite takes me to successful small public companies or well-funded startups.

If I don't have a risk appetite, I'd go government or boring F500 companies that are starving for engineers.

Wherever I go, I am very particular about the mission and that I get along with the team and manager. The less the bureaucracy, the more likely I am to enjoy working for them.

But there is no way I will work for big tech with their miserable processes, culture and exploitative management. I am here to work, not to constantly walk on eggshells for BS rules.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#65

Post by Zelphyr »

dboreham wrote: post #45
satvikpendem wrote: post #9

One of the top comments on the YouTube video attached to the article talks about how someone wasted their 20s working as the founding engineer (employee #6 of a 6-person startup) and when the company exited for $100 MM, they only got 100k and are still working at 40 years of age while the other 5, presumably having cofounder-level equity, are retired. This is the true risk of startups, and, if you're looking to maxim…

Wasn't it jwz who first widely pointed this out: startup stock is a lottery ticket. Nobody should take 1/2 wages because their boss gave them a lottery ticket.

And then, hilariously, he said, "I just happened to have won that particular lottery."

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#66

Post by ldjkfkdsjnv »

dilyevsky wrote: post #54
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

That's a nice fantasy but most technically minded folks will quickly discover that political savviness required to pull this off is in fact a skill and the one they generally don't possess. Also, watch the hands: > 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role.

Its not a fantasy, this is path represents a huge percentage of managers/higher ups in software

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#67

Post by scarface_74 »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

But then you have to work at Amazon. Been there done that got the T-shirt.

Honestly that’s not bad advice though. I did something like you recommended. A recruiter from Amazon Retail reached out to me about applying for an SDE position in mid 2020. I wasn’t about to sell my big house in the burbs of Atlanta that I just had built in 2016 to work at Amazon in Seattle “when Covid lifted”. Besides I hadn’t had to do a coding interview - ever. As an enterprise CRUD developer who knew AWS, had a network and knew how to talk to people.

After I kept talking to her, she suggested I apply for a remote role at AWS ProServe specializing in app dev + cloud. There was no coding interview.

I’m far from naive. I was 46 at the time on my 7th job and new from reputation and second hand experience that eventually Amazon is going to Amazon.

I was well prepared when I got Amazoned.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37969302

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#68

Post by liquidpele »

mushufasa wrote: post #59
liquidpele wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if the CEO isn't a technical engineer literally working on the code, they are ultimately accountable for getting engineers and designers to build the right product. You haven't had to have meetings with a CEO before, have you?

You've never been a CEO before?

I'll take that as a "no".

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#69

Post by purpleblue »

It's funny that YC is posting this video, because as far as I can tell, YC teaches its founders to keep most of the equity for themselves, and dole out as little equity as possible to their employees.

Back during the dotcom days, most employees, from secretaries to engineers, got extremely rich from options when the company IPOed. These days, in order to make a life-changing amount of money at a YC startup as an employee, the company needs to exit/IPO at over $5 billion in order to make about $1 million. I was at a YC company for 4.5 years as an early engineer, and I ended up with less than $100,000 from my options. I would have made 10x that had I taken a FAANG offer with considerably less work and risk.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#70

Post by scarface_74 »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #20
siliconc0w wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly this is mostly true. It used be at $bigtech you needed to be the equivalent of a senior engineer (L5+) to go into management. This is categorically not the case anymore. TPMs, due to their role, work across orgs and interface more with leadership so they do seem to get a lot more visibility/exposure than normal ICs and do seem to get promoted into leadership positions more easily. My wife is less technical and…

I think alot of engineers are under the impression that if they work hard enough they will be promoted. But actually, the company gains the most from highly productive mid level engineers. These are the workhorses, they do not want to promote them.

You never get promoted for “working hard”. You get promoted by showing your ability to work at a larger “scope”, showing “impact” and “dealing with ambiguity”. All of the leveling guidelines of tech companies I’ve seen or heard about have the same concepts.
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