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George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

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Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#271
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that conservatives most often quote "Nineteen-eighty-four" as a comment on "politically correct" language. But when asked about "family values", "obamacare", "right to work" and other conservative double-speak, they often don't feel like those apply. My point is not that conservatives use more double-speak/newspeak then progressives, rather my point is that this is used and applied across the political spectru…

I think the more heinous "conservative" (as you put it) changes are related to physical conditions and the euphemism treadmill. George Carlins "soft language" specifically spells out an example; shell-shock, battle fatigue -> Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. I think making a term so long that it becomes an acronym is definitely part of this. The most up-to-the-minute example I can think of is "CSAM" which removes all…

“Child Sex Abuse” actually puts the pain and damage to the victim front and centre in a way that ‘kiddie porn’ singularly fails to do.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I was rather ignorant to for the longest time was how fascism can exist at both ends of the spectrum. My last day on Mastodon was the day a few people ganged up on me quite aggressively for not putting Alt text in an image. Tolerance isn’t acceptance. It’s letting things you don’t like exist without making a big fuss over it. You can dislike certain speech patterns without having to go on a crusade against…

I think fascism is a bad term to use here, totalitarianism or thought-policing is more what you mean. Fascism refers to specific political beliefs including totalitarianism plus some form of cultural supremacy (typically racism, but it can also be religious or nationalistic), rigid hierarchy, and might-makes-right morals. Not all totalitarian regimes are fascist, and the behavior you're describing is neither hierarch…

Not to take away from anything you said, but the woke/PC mob are kind of scary right.

They have the cultural supremacy part, like a non theistic religion where adherence to the tenets are required or you'll be excused. Those weird and creepy struggle sessions. Not to mention it is one side of the ongoing culture war.

They have the rigid hierarchy known as the progressive stack that ranks people on their immutable characteristics rather than their individual merits.

The might makes right comes from the antifa groups who ”by any means necessary” violently attack those who do not adhere to the tenets of the strange religion. As well as the control from the institutions such as universities where in faculty or students that don't adhere to the tenets are abused until they leave or are fired outright.

So it's pretty close right? I'm sure there are a few other tenets of fascism that you left out for brevity which would preclude the woke/PC mob from the facist label but it's interesting and scary how close they come.

I'm just glad they're not good with weapons, except for the Jon Brown Gun Club, for whom the addition of weapons seem to have a slightly deradicalizing effect

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#273
post #100

I saw a conversation on Twitter a while ago back when it still was Twitter. The OP with many followers was laying out words and classes of words with negative connotations that shouldn't be used. Someone replied in good faith to OP and asked how we should express negative thoughts. OPs answer was basically that we shouldn't. I find that kind of thought very off putting and minorly disturbing. An important part of the…

Something I was rather ignorant to for the longest time was how fascism can exist at both ends of the spectrum. My last day on Mastodon was the day a few people ganged up on me quite aggressively for not putting Alt text in an image. Tolerance isn’t acceptance. It’s letting things you don’t like exist without making a big fuss over it. You can dislike certain speech patterns without having to go on a crusade against…

> My last day on Mastodon was the day a few people ganged up on me quite aggressively for not putting Alt text in an image.

Why was it important for you not to include it?

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#274
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The better stand-up comedians are hard to distinguish from philosophers. Carlin is right up there. It's a pity he's gone, we kind of need him right now.

Note that the opposite can also be true: some philosophers can also be good comedians (in spite of the general stereotype that all philosophers are excruciatingly boring and dry, which can partially be attributed to the proliferation of analytic philosophy.) For example Slavoj Zizek has a whole book dedicated to cataloguing his (often "politically incorrect") jokes. Link here: https://meydanehonar.com/Panel/Uploads/6…

Thanks for sharing this! Zizek is extremely engaging but I wish he would be more perscriptive than just descriptive.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#275
post #100

I saw a conversation on Twitter a while ago back when it still was Twitter. The OP with many followers was laying out words and classes of words with negative connotations that shouldn't be used. Someone replied in good faith to OP and asked how we should express negative thoughts. OPs answer was basically that we shouldn't. I find that kind of thought very off putting and minorly disturbing. An important part of the…

I mean, you are posting this in a hugbox forum where overtly suggesting that certain opinions don’t have merit or rigor is forbidden because it hurts peoples fee-fees. You, too, participate in society.

Some say taping aquarium rocks to your cables improves the sound, some say it’s rubbish, let’s have a discussion and if you are really so sure about your ideas I’m sure you can refute the idea right? Let’s have a debate!

(And now just continue refuting it every day for the rest of your life…)

https://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm

https://www.machinadynamica.com/machina17.htm

https://i.imgur.com/296fTdq.jpg

Effectively that’s outlawing the opinion of “no that’s dumb, you’re dumb for suggesting that”, which is unfortunately rather a necessary one, science doesn’t work if everyone has to treat the idea that the moon is cheese with equal weight. At some point you can believe whatever you want but the scientific discourse doesn’t have to include you, and people don’t grow if they’re not told their opinions are wrong and objectively incorrect from time to time. The moon is not made of cheese and unless you got a real good reason then you’re dumb for suggesting it, and you’re worsening the discourse for all of us too by even entertaining it. Discourse does not benefit from entertaining facially outlandish ideas without some evidentiary backing etc just “for the sake of discussion”.

At some level, enforced politeness and forced equality-of-merit for all opinions is a thought-terminating cliche and becomes destructive to discourse. It’s a little bizarre how people love having legislated “truth in the middle” outcomes to discourse. The truth often is objectively not in the middle and it worsens the discourse to pretend it is.

(Same for the way this forum treats hanlon’s razor tbh. 99% of the time when people invoke it, it’s a handwave to excuse some pretty conveniently malice or self-interest. That’s effectively using it as a thought-terminating cliche. Any time profit or PR spokespeople are involved you should never invoke it, because malice is indistinguishable from profit-seeking in most circumstances etc.)

The same is true of certain openly callous and cruel perspectives etc. It’s not just factual perspectives that can be destructive and noxious if tolerated as though they held rigor and merit, and extreme indifference etc is just as toxic as wishing harm directly etc. Just because you don’t care about litter, or masking during a pandemic, or climate change, doesn’t mean the rest of society isn’t going to set expectations etc, and “I guess you’ll have to die then” is not exactly sympathetic, but it’s uncouth to point out the callousness here. And that is, itself, an editorial lean towards the legitimacy and integrity of such positions. You’re treating “I don’t want to die” with the same weight as “I guess you’ll have to die for me”, and tutting when people get upset about it.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I was rather ignorant to for the longest time was how fascism can exist at both ends of the spectrum. My last day on Mastodon was the day a few people ganged up on me quite aggressively for not putting Alt text in an image. Tolerance isn’t acceptance. It’s letting things you don’t like exist without making a big fuss over it. You can dislike certain speech patterns without having to go on a crusade against…

It turns out you can put whatever text you want in the alt text field and it won't get clocked by the scolds because they don't actually care enough to check. It's enough that it appears compliant in a surface-level audit. However, there is an issue suggesting adding an automated scold in the Mastodon client (and Megalodon already has such a scold, plus a (!) of shame on images without alt text) https://github.com/ma…

> I have yet to find an actual vision-impaired person complaining about missing alt text.

What was your sample size?

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#277
post #100

I saw a conversation on Twitter a while ago back when it still was Twitter. The OP with many followers was laying out words and classes of words with negative connotations that shouldn't be used. Someone replied in good faith to OP and asked how we should express negative thoughts. OPs answer was basically that we shouldn't. I find that kind of thought very off putting and minorly disturbing. An important part of the…

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Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#278
Re-reading Orwell's "Politics and the English Language" [1] a few months ago showed me how often I speak imprecisely or use too many words. Often I use more words than are necessary, only to say nothing. The purpose of words is to express ideas, but I often catch myself using words to obscure my thoughts and intentions rather than to share them. Worse than too many words are imprecise words. Words like "stuff", "things", "generally", and many others, simplify ideas to vague caricatures of themselves. Worse still, is that imprecision corrupts thinking. If someone cannot precisely express their ideas, perhaps they have none to express.

For instance, I have heard statements like "things aren't the same as they used to be". If I ask what isn't the same as it used to be, I receive vague responses that repeat what was previously said, rather than give clarity. Now, when I catch myself using similar phrases, I pause and ask myself, "what am I really trying to say?" Sometimes I find myself not actually intending to say anything - just something. This practice challenges me to think, rather than to parrot mindless responses that tell others nothing about what I am thinking at all. [1]: https://guidetogrammar.org/grammar/composition/orwell.htm

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#279
post #155

> I'll bet if they had still been calling it 'shell shock,' some of those Vietnam veterans might have received the attention they needed. History lesson: no, WWI veterans didn't get the attention they needed. This is wistful conservatism wrapped in a shroud of comedy. Don't mistake it for truth or wisdom. The treatment of Vietnam veterans was not a departure from the standard practice of wars predating it. The depth…

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Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#280
post #17

>"Americans have trouble facing the truth," Carlin said. "So they invent a kind of a soft language to protect themselves from it" It is useful and not limited to Americans, that's why people do it. Much more people would have been vegans or they would be much more indifferent to violence if every pack of meat had a QR code to a video showing the life and processing of that particular animal. It's also not just soften…

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