Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

thoughtco.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 429 posts

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#201

Post by Waterluvian »

tsimionescu wrote: post #168
Waterluvian wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I was rather ignorant to for the longest time was how fascism can exist at both ends of the spectrum. My last day on Mastodon was the day a few people ganged up on me quite aggressively for not putting Alt text in an image. Tolerance isn’t acceptance. It’s letting things you don’t like exist without making a big fuss over it. You can dislike certain speech patterns without having to go on a crusade against…

I think fascism is a bad term to use here, totalitarianism or thought-policing is more what you mean. Fascism refers to specific political beliefs including totalitarianism plus some form of cultural supremacy (typically racism, but it can also be religious or nationalistic), rigid hierarchy, and might-makes-right morals. Not all totalitarian regimes are fascist, and the behavior you're describing is neither hierarch…

Thanks for the comment. I think you’re right and that it’s important enough to try to change my habit of word use.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#202

Post by dijit »

paulluuk wrote: post #189
dijit wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such language policing is double-plus-ungood. (For those that haven’t read the classic Nineteen-eighty-four book by Eric Arthur Blair (pen name: George Orwell) one of the core themes of the story is how the ruling party controlled language, calling it “newspeak”, in order to remove the ability to express certain thoughts or opinions, most notably those that could be used to incite revolution or allow you to express d…

I find that conservatives most often quote "Nineteen-eighty-four" as a comment on "politically correct" language. But when asked about "family values", "obamacare", "right to work" and other conservative double-speak, they often don't feel like those apply. My point is not that conservatives use more double-speak/newspeak then progressives, rather my point is that this is used and applied across the political spectru…

I think the more heinous "conservative" (as you put it) changes are related to physical conditions and the euphemism treadmill.

George Carlins "soft language" specifically spells out an example; shell-shock, battle fatigue -> Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.

I think making a term so long that it becomes an acronym is definitely part of this.

The most up-to-the-minute example I can think of is "CSAM" which removes all pain of the victims. For those not in the know "kiddie porn" as it was once known was rebranded to "child rape images", then "child abuse images" now finally "child sexual abuse images" which is now so long that it is oft abbreviated CSAM.

You are right though, there's a lot of newspeak, my (least) favourite example is "pro-life" which is a glorious bit of double-think.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#203

Post by lc9er »

bigDinosaur wrote: post #196
paulluuk wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that conservatives most often quote "Nineteen-eighty-four" as a comment on "politically correct" language. But when asked about "family values", "obamacare", "right to work" and other conservative double-speak, they often don't feel like those apply. My point is not that conservatives use more double-speak/newspeak then progressives, rather my point is that this is used and applied across the political spectru…

How is 'collateral damage' newspeak? It's a useful concept even if you want to avoid it at all costs, but beyond that euphemisms have existed forever and are not the same as newspeak (which wanted to make something literally unthinkable, not merely euphemistic).

It's soft language for 'civilian casualties', even though it can include other things like property destruction.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#204

Post by njharman »

Related, in language being taken over and replaced. Having not paid attention to sports for 30years, but recently going to hocky matches. I have the perspective of avoiding the gradual "frog in boiling water effect". It was really in my face and shocking. My first thought was man, this is close to Idiocracy level.

Every prominent surface is plastered with advertising, even the zamboni. Everything is sponsored, "Holloway motors Power Play!", "TEP half time puck toss".

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#205

Post by mcpackieh »

ironSkillet wrote: post #186
michaelgburton wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

150+ animals per person per year? Citation needed.

There's just no way it's true. A single cow can feed someone who eats beef often for an entire year.

Count chickens it's a plausible number. If you count things like small fish and shrimp then it's probably a severe underestimate. I guess he isn't counting those, self-described vegans often don't for some reason.

I probably eat a thousand anchovies a year alone.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#207

Post by [deleted] »

mbb70 wrote: post #24

One I recently heard was "conducting a rif" == "conducting a reduction in force" == "firing people". Soft language is alway to the benefit of the speaker, to assuage guilt or obfuscate intent. It's always to the detriment of the listener.

[deleted]

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#208

Post by JasserInicide »

donatj wrote: post #100

I saw a conversation on Twitter a while ago back when it still was Twitter. The OP with many followers was laying out words and classes of words with negative connotations that shouldn't be used. Someone replied in good faith to OP and asked how we should express negative thoughts. OPs answer was basically that we shouldn't. I find that kind of thought very off putting and minorly disturbing. An important part of the…

A great recent example is everyone changing whitelist/blacklist to allowlist/blocklist because Americans are so fucking obsessed with race politics that they see it absolutely everywhere

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#209

Post by golwengaud »

Aloha wrote: post #185
iancmceachern wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes perfect sense. Taking a ship back from Europe for a couple weeks is like a built in therapy detox group session. The way my grandfather talked about WWII was different than other folks I've heard talk about wars after. My grandfather was at peace about it within himself in a way I haven't seen since. The things he saw and had to do were no doubt just as horrific.

I've done some reading on the topic - and what surprises me is that none of the professional literature (that I've found), touches on this. But for me as a reader of history, it's blindly obvious - in particular with the strategy used to treat PTSD, which is functionally group therapy with over vets with similar experiences.

FWIW, Jonathan Shay's /Achilles in Vietnam: Combat Trauma and the Undoing of Character/ [1] touches on this. It's a good book.

IDK if Shay's book qualifies as "professional literature", but he was certainly a professional (VA psychiatrist), and I have the impression it was fairly influential.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Achilles-Vietnam-Combat-Undoing-Chara...

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#210

Post by derefr »

dijit wrote: post #202
paulluuk wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that conservatives most often quote "Nineteen-eighty-four" as a comment on "politically correct" language. But when asked about "family values", "obamacare", "right to work" and other conservative double-speak, they often don't feel like those apply. My point is not that conservatives use more double-speak/newspeak then progressives, rather my point is that this is used and applied across the political spectru…

I think the more heinous "conservative" (as you put it) changes are related to physical conditions and the euphemism treadmill. George Carlins "soft language" specifically spells out an example; shell-shock, battle fatigue -> Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. I think making a term so long that it becomes an acronym is definitely part of this. The most up-to-the-minute example I can think of is "CSAM" which removes all…

> George Carlins "soft language" specifically spells out an example; shell-shock, battle fatigue -> Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.

I’ve always thought that this was a bad example of the euphemism treadmill, because each step is clearly an attempt to be more general than the last. The name makes it clear that this isn’t just a disorder you’ll find in soldiers at constant fear of being shelled at any moment (shell shock); nor even of soldiers who’ve seen the horrors of battle generally (battle fatigue); but rather that anyone who has been through any kind of chronic, fearful stress under the constant expectation that some traumatizing event might happen at any moment, is liable to end up experiencing these symptoms.

Or, to put it more viscerally: doctors would be wary of diagnosing a victim of domestic abuse with “shell shock.” But “PTSD” — not just as a symptom profile, but also as a name for that symptom profile, and a set of social connotations around that name — clearly fits.

> CSAM

This is actually an example of a completely different effect: it’s a cultural shibboleth. Police want to use automatic word filters to discover and surface conversations between pedophiles, while not triggering those filters with their own conversations about the pedophiles’ activities. So they have invented a word that is equivalent to the generic term in meaning, but part of “policing language.” (And, as a special trick, it’s a term with no potential for a treadmill effect, as pedophiles would be loath to use a term that frames them as perpetrators of abuse.)

Post reply on HN