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George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

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Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#231

Post by theodric »

Waterluvian wrote: post #115
donatj wrote: post #100

I saw a conversation on Twitter a while ago back when it still was Twitter. The OP with many followers was laying out words and classes of words with negative connotations that shouldn't be used. Someone replied in good faith to OP and asked how we should express negative thoughts. OPs answer was basically that we shouldn't. I find that kind of thought very off putting and minorly disturbing. An important part of the…

Something I was rather ignorant to for the longest time was how fascism can exist at both ends of the spectrum. My last day on Mastodon was the day a few people ganged up on me quite aggressively for not putting Alt text in an image. Tolerance isn’t acceptance. It’s letting things you don’t like exist without making a big fuss over it. You can dislike certain speech patterns without having to go on a crusade against…

It turns out you can put whatever text you want in the alt text field and it won't get clocked by the scolds because they don't actually care enough to check. It's enough that it appears compliant in a surface-level audit.

However, there is an issue suggesting adding an automated scold in the Mastodon client (and Megalodon already has such a scold, plus a (!) of shame on images without alt text) https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/13894

I have yet to find an actual vision-impaired person complaining about missing alt text. I'm sure there is one somewhere, but it mostly seems to be a phenomenon on Mastodon for a few people to use as a cudgel to feel superior.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#232

Post by PhasmaFelis »

dijit wrote: post #202
paulluuk wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that conservatives most often quote "Nineteen-eighty-four" as a comment on "politically correct" language. But when asked about "family values", "obamacare", "right to work" and other conservative double-speak, they often don't feel like those apply. My point is not that conservatives use more double-speak/newspeak then progressives, rather my point is that this is used and applied across the political spectru…

I think the more heinous "conservative" (as you put it) changes are related to physical conditions and the euphemism treadmill. George Carlins "soft language" specifically spells out an example; shell-shock, battle fatigue -> Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. I think making a term so long that it becomes an acronym is definitely part of this. The most up-to-the-minute example I can think of is "CSAM" which removes all…

> The most up-to-the-minute example I can think of is "CSAM" which removes all pain of the victims. For those not in the know "kiddie porn" as it was once known was rebranded to "child rape images", then "child abuse images" now finally "child sexual abuse images" which is now so long that it is oft abbreviated CSAM.

There are several good reasons for this, one of which is that poorly-thought-out child pornography laws have beem used to charge and convict children for taking photos of their own bodies. Explicitly defining the prohibited material as "child sexual abuse images" puts a stop to that when it's obvious that no abuse or exploitation occurred.

And of course we use PTSD instead of "battle fatigue" because it affects many millions of people who have never been near a battle.

These are not good examples.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#233

Post by swayvil »

everdrive wrote: post #222
swayvil wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a local mind-control cult where I live. When asked they'll retort "why yes, we are a mind control cult. We teach you how to control your mind." ...but that isn't what I meant. Controlling the language. It's a big thing.

It's interesting that you have a local cult. What's it called?

School of the Prophets (or something like that). A flavor of Sufis.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#234

Post by pstuart »

JohnFen wrote: post #212
swayvil wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a local mind-control cult where I live. When asked they'll retort "why yes, we are a mind control cult. We teach you how to control your mind." ...but that isn't what I meant. Controlling the language. It's a big thing.

> Controlling the language. It's a big thing. And that's underselling how big it is. Language is the API to our brains. That's at least half the point Orwell's 1984 makes.

Chomsky has entered the chat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#235

Post by pauldenton »

Kye wrote: post #40
hfuyf65 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He would have had a field day if he was alive. It is a loss for all of us that he is gone. Still, we now have Chapelle, who is building similiar legacy and potentially Bill Burr one day. Absolute agreement on the philosopher/jester vibes.

Dave Chappelle walked away from money out of principle when it came to making jokes about people like him for white audiences, but happily cracks jokes about trans people. He's a has-been and a hypocrite and Carlin would end his career.

What's wrong with making jokes about trans people? Christians never seem to get bothered when people make jokes about them. Not like Jews or Muslims, especially since October 7th Maybe Jews and Muslims and Trans people should be more like Christians. When someone is making a joke at your expense, turn the other cheek

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#236

Post by eesmith »

tptacek wrote: post #128

Just for fun, from the first example: * Toilet paper -> bathroom tissue --- sure, a softening of the language. * Sneakers -> running shoes --- not a softening; sneakers aren't the same as running shoes, and "sneaker" was a regionalism (it's "gym shoe" where I grew up). * False teeth -> dental appliance --- a softening, though a welcome one in this case. * Medicine -> medication --- a softening (a nominalization of a…

For more fun, "bathroom tissue" as an alternative term for "toilet paper" predates Carlin's birth by years.

Here's a 1928 advertisement on colored bathroom tissue, which you can see is toilet paper - https://archive.org/details/sim_house-garden_1928-05_53_5/pa...

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#237

Post by ethanbond »

mcpackieh wrote: post #229
ethanbond wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you lost the thread. The claim was factory farming doesn’t change the volume of meat consumption and production, only the geographic location of it. It is economically not viable for every American family to produce and kill their own 2lb of (currently, on average) consumed meat per day. That is why we have factory farming and why it dominates our food supply: economies of scale. The lack of these economies i…

I think you've lost track of the difference between other people and yourself. The words you're using seem to talk about how other people feel, but you're actually talking about how you feel and assuming that any difference between the two is rooted in ignorance. > "your kids’ reaction" Maybe this should be "my reaction as a kid", since you don't know that person's kids. > "The emotions one feels" Should be "the emot…

Go run the experiments!

I’m putting my bet on what those experiments would show, which is people’s consumption patterns would be adversely impacted by more in-depth knowledge of the food supply chain.

This is also where meat producers place their bets and why they fight tooth and nail against transparency within their industry.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#238

Post by lastofus »

xyzelement wrote: post #146

One of the many places I see soft language hurt is in feedback. “Our project is late” and “xyzelement failed to prioritize well” might refer to the same event but one is more likely to “sting” me in a way that causes change. In my value system change and improvement are worth the sting in the short term, but often that is prevented by soft language. Eg I’ve seen developers/ managers / teams come out on the other side…

There's some arguments behind why you might want to not lay blame plainly (and especially publicly) on an individual, within a business team setting.

- Laying direct blame on someone may lead them to trying to hide problems to avoid the pain/shame in the future.

- Related - everyone makes honest mistakes. Creating and environment where people feel ok admitting to these is a lot more ideal than the alternative.

- Teams should be encouraged to take collective ownership, such that if someone who works with xyzelement sees them failing to prioritize, they need to do something about it, even if it's just raising a concern early in the project with those who need to hear said concern.

That all said, sometimes people do need direct feedback (in private), especially when they are struggling in general with their job.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#239

Post by [deleted] »

swayvil wrote: post #173
dijit wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such language policing is double-plus-ungood. (For those that haven’t read the classic Nineteen-eighty-four book by Eric Arthur Blair (pen name: George Orwell) one of the core themes of the story is how the ruling party controlled language, calling it “newspeak”, in order to remove the ability to express certain thoughts or opinions, most notably those that could be used to incite revolution or allow you to express d…

We have a local mind-control cult where I live. When asked they'll retort "why yes, we are a mind control cult. We teach you how to control your mind." ...but that isn't what I meant. Controlling the language. It's a big thing.

[deleted]

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#240

Post by dopidopHN »

lefstathiou wrote: post #156
imgabe wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For literally thousands of years humans personally slaughtered animals and had no problem with it. But you assume people wouldn’t do this without some fanciful words for it. Based on what? Wishful thinking?

Anecdotal “proof”: In the heart of Manhattan’s ultra trendy Chelsea neighborhood is the Chelsea market which is now this super trendy food hall. In the basement is a delicious butcher named Dicksons where literally hundreds of New Yorkers and tourists eat and drink craft beers while they literally saw entire pigs and baby calfs in half and dangle their carcasses in clear eye sight of where you sit and eat. I take my…

you must realize that a high end butcher has nothing to do with a meat factory where the bulk of our meat is coming from?

Bring your family to the one where they crush the male chick on a conveyor belt next time. ( chick culling, you can find video online and watch it before the omelet dinner )

Or just a good ol’ bunch of pigs understanding very well what’s gonna happen and try to escape. It’s kinda cute.

Or you could discuss why a cow produce milk. That it needs to had deliver a calf recently. And how impregnate the cow ( it’s a “rape rack” device ) and then finish by the cow following the calves in despair over cookie and milk.

— A butcher is not a industrial meat factory.

The latter are the issue.

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