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George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

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Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#81
post #79
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the observation that most modern people have no idea where the meat or the vegetables come from. The packaged goods did the consumers from the o Production. Activist are using videos of production lines to promote their agenda.

The fact that activists are doing something does not mean that it’s effective or anyone cares. People need food. If they don’t happen to know where it comes from they would figure it out with a quickness if it ever became necessary for them to learn.

[flagged]

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#82
post #81
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that activists are doing something does not mean that it’s effective or anyone cares. People need food. If they don’t happen to know where it comes from they would figure it out with a quickness if it ever became necessary for them to learn.

[flagged]

No, you don’t need to assign yourself to some particular group to have an opinion.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#83
post #42
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not even in the same sport, let alone the same league.

Not yet, but if you watch early Carlin it is the same pattern: 1. initially safe,sanitized corporate friendly jokes 2. some commercial success 3. ? 4. jokes increasingly become a social commentary and are less and less 'friendly'

Carlin and safe, sanitized corporate friendly jokes never happened. If anything he became less intentionally rude over time.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#85
post #15

What’s the effect here? I don’t think I like soft language, but can’t really pinpoint why I don’t like it. Is it bad that some company came up with toilet paper and now it’s bathroom tissue? Shell shock is now PTSD? Who cares?

I didn't read all of the article but I've watched that bit multiple times, IIRC his point was all of these euphemisms sanitize the language and hide the meaning and emotions behind words. PTSD is a clinical word with less emotional connotations, it sounds more manageable and it's easier to forget. Maybe if we didn't change what it was, it would've been a bit more difficult to send people to wars where they can get 's…

You (and Carlin) have a post-Vietnam interpretation of "shell shock", made possible only because of the success of PTSD for classifying and treating emotional injuries.

We can look to the post-WWI era 'Report of the War Office Committee of Enquiry into "Shell-shock"' to see how in 1922 they viewed "shell shock" as a congenital or upbringing failing. From https://archive.org/details/b3217777x/page/96/mode/2up?q=con...

> Authorities are agreed that, in the majority of cases of war neurosis, there already existed a congenital or acquired predisposition to pathological reaction in the individual concerned, and that this constitutional characteristic was of vast importance.

We can see how many viewed it as simple lack of morale:

> Major Adie tritely expressed himself in stating that there was only one word worth mentioning, and that was “ Morale.’’ If you keep up the morale there will be no “ shell-shock.’’ The medical officer should know his. men, and can prevent the vast majority of nervous cases—mild “ shell-shock ’’—from becoming ‘‘shell-shocks’’ by retaining them at the front, or by giving them a little rest at the front. As long as they were living with soldiers, and in the atmosphere of the front line, the tendency was to recover. They were to be looked on merely as physically exhausted. - https://archive.org/details/b3217777x/page/158/mode/2up?q=mo...

> He agreed with the regimental opinion that a large number of ‘‘shell shock’’ cases in a battalion may be taken as a sign of poor morale. - https://archive.org/details/b3217777x/page/16/mode/2up?q=mor...

Then there's the difficulty of figuring out if someone is suffering from shell shock or is a coward - the latter being punishable by death:

> Asked whether he had any experience of cases of men charged with certain military offences, such as desertion, in which the plea of "shell shock" was put forward, the doctor said he saw many such cases. As Neurologist of the 4th Army, all cases which put in a plea of "shell shock" as an excuse for desertion were sent to him for medical examination and report, and he was always asked to give evidence in courts-martial on these cases. He confessed it was an extremely difficult and distasteful task, and he very soon came to the conclusion that it was almost impossible for the Medical Officer to make a decisive statement ... - https://archive.org/details/b3217777x/page/42/mode/2up?q=exc...

Or if someone is shirking duties by claiming shell shock:

> "Shell-shock" became recognized as a handy excuse, and, indeed, a suggestion also to the many who were ready to avail themselves of any subterfuge to escape from the terrors of the front. - https://archive.org/details/b3217777x/page/140/mode/2up?q=ex...

As a result, the British government decided "that quasi-medical words like ’shell-shock’ should never be used, that the whole question of psychoneuroses should be both recognized and played down, and that no pensions should be paid." (quoting https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0957154x9901004... ).

The term "shell shock" was not used in WWII. From the last source, "’Not Yet Diagnosed (Nervous)’ (NYDN) or ’Exhaustion’ being the commonest. The troops had a variety of terms, notably ’Bomb Happy’ or ‘Windy’."

So no, it wouldn't have been more difficult. It was viewed as a moral or congenital failure of the solider to carry out his service.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#86
post #69
post #51

I don't think Carlin's observation holds much support. Take the classic "shell shock" bit. Carlin defines it at "a condition in combat that occurs when a soldier is completely stressed out and is on the verge of a nervous collapse." However, that is not the WWI definition. Quoting https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.2... : "The term “shell shock” evolved in an attempt to describe cases that aro…

I'm sorry did they see a completely terrified person and decides torture and mutilation would get them back on track?!?

Yes.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#87
post #10
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The better stand-up comedians are hard to distinguish from philosophers. Carlin is right up there. It's a pity he's gone, we kind of need him right now.

He would have had a field day if he was alive. It is a loss for all of us that he is gone. Still, we now have Chapelle, who is building similiar legacy and potentially Bill Burr one day. Absolute agreement on the philosopher/jester vibes.

Dave Chappelle is the most overrated standup comedian in the world right now. He was funny before he left. He shouldn't have come back. He is now a cheap reactionary. He is not even in the same league as George Carlin.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#88
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Over here in France, companies try to advertise that animals are well taken care off, raised outside, etc. I suppose they think it is relevant for enough people to spend money advertising it. And GP's example shows that seeing the animals being killed doesn't mean people will stop eating meat. "the more devout muslims practice ceremonial animal sacrifice which often happens on the streets with kids around, so…

I agree, mostly. However the vegetarianism aspect is more nuanced IMHO. In my experience, seeing animal being killed is not enough, it needs to be combined with some kind of affection to the animal by giving it a personality. For example I feel uneasy since I watched cows showing curiosity towards objects and be playful like dogs. Also a friend of mine who used to live in a farm says that the cows can tell that they…

I'm not convinced the personality thing is sufficient, or maybe I don't quite understand what you mean by that. Cows used to have names, like horses or dogs did. In contrast, house cats usually didn't.

Plus, the children used to play with the goats and sheep while they were still small. I'm not very familiar with the cows (my grandparents didn't have any), but I know that goats also tend to be fairly smart, curious and quite playful. As a kid it's fairly easy to develop some attachment to them, especially since there isn't that big of a size difference (a cow can be intimidating to a child because of its size).

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#89

What’s the effect here? I don’t think I like soft language, but can’t really pinpoint why I don’t like it. Is it bad that some company came up with toilet paper and now it’s bathroom tissue? Shell shock is now PTSD? Who cares?

Deflection, (self)censorship, there's a number of reasons. Toilet paper became bathroom tissue because some people think toilets are gross. Shellshock became battle fatigue so that people aren't discouraged from going to war; "they're just tired". It became post-traumatic stress disorder to make it both clinical, and to put it on the person having it - YOU have a disorder after a traumatic event. Modern day example,…

>Toilet paper became bathroom tissue because some people think toilets are gross.

When and why did ass-wiping paper become toilet paper?

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#90
If your reality is largely compromised of language, soft language is the natural evolution of language. Of course we who live wrapped in language are going to modify our terms for comfort. When you're wrapped like this, comfort trumps accuracy.

We might ask, "what's up with this apparent language-wrapped majority?"

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