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George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

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Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#51
I don't think Carlin's observation holds much support.

Take the classic "shell shock" bit. Carlin defines it at "a condition in combat that occurs when a soldier is completely stressed out and is on the verge of a nervous collapse." However, that is not the WWI definition. Quoting https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.2... :

"The term “shell shock” evolved in an attempt to describe cases that arose in the context of exploding ordnance but where enduring symptoms could not be linked to the presence of an obvious organic lesion."

The problem was, from the same link, "many shell-shocked soldiers had been nowhere near an explosion but had identical symptoms to those who had. ... when it had become clear that many cases of shell shock were not directly related to a head injury, military medical authorities attempted to restrict use of the diagnosis. Servicemen invalided from the front were given a preliminary label of “not yet diagnosed, nervous,” and those who failed to recover but had no visible cerebral injury were then classified as “neurasthenic.” Disputes over the etiology and management of shell shock served to inhibit further the design of an effective protocol."

This should be very familiar to those who remember the PTSD debate in the post-Vietnam era.

So when Carlin say "I’ll bet if they had still been calling it 'shell shock,' some of those Vietnam veterans might have received the attention they needed.", I don't really think that's true.

We can even read of some of the attention received by WWI victims of shell shock, at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_shock :

"Some men with shell shock were put on trial, and even executed, for military crimes including desertion and cowardice.[16] While it was recognised that the stresses of war could cause men to break down, a lasting episode was likely to be seen as symptomatic of an underlying lack of character ... The continued pressure to avoid medical recognition of shell shock meant that it was not, in itself, considered an admissible defence. Although some doctors or medics did take procedure to try to cure soldiers' shell shock, it was first done in a brutal way. ... a patient who had, over the course of 9 months, been subjected unsuccessfully to numerous treatments for his mutism; these included strong application of electricity to his throat, lit cigarette ends applied to the tip of his tongue, and "hot plates" placed in the back of his mouth"

PTSD is a larger category which would include shell shock, but also includes (as the VA point out at https://www.research.va.gov/topics/ptsd.cfm) military sexual trauma, which wouldn't be classified as "shell shock" but has similar symptoms and treatments.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#52
post #40
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He would have had a field day if he was alive. It is a loss for all of us that he is gone. Still, we now have Chapelle, who is building similiar legacy and potentially Bill Burr one day. Absolute agreement on the philosopher/jester vibes.

Dave Chappelle walked away from money out of principle when it came to making jokes about people like him for white audiences, but happily cracks jokes about trans people. He's a has-been and a hypocrite and Carlin would end his career.

Disagree, but can you substantiate hypocrite claim? Also cancellation chance seems to depend on how 'big' you are. Chapelle wasn't cancelled despite attempts. I suspect Carlin would get in trouble, but since he had a strong following, it is hardly a given.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#53

What’s the effect here? I don’t think I like soft language, but can’t really pinpoint why I don’t like it. Is it bad that some company came up with toilet paper and now it’s bathroom tissue? Shell shock is now PTSD? Who cares?

I have a similar struggle. One thing I did come up with is many times corporations use newly created jargon to confuse people. It add a mental burden on the listener to decipher and takes away from the time to analyze the statement.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#54
post #42
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not even in the same sport, let alone the same league.

Not yet, but if you watch early Carlin it is the same pattern: 1. initially safe,sanitized corporate friendly jokes 2. some commercial success 3. ? 4. jokes increasingly become a social commentary and are less and less 'friendly'

I remember early Carlin and he pushed the legal limits of radio and TV broadcast from the start. AFAIK he was also the first to cross the lines with the "7 words" one can not say on that industry. He was always providing commentary on society but what I noticed was that his views got darker and more jaded with time. He started off using his knowledge of language to be rebellious and edgy, then delving more into self analysis tearing himself apart for self deprecating routines then eventually teasing and tearing society apart.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#55
post #52
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dave Chappelle walked away from money out of principle when it came to making jokes about people like him for white audiences, but happily cracks jokes about trans people. He's a has-been and a hypocrite and Carlin would end his career.

Disagree, but can you substantiate hypocrite claim? Also cancellation chance seems to depend on how 'big' you are. Chapelle wasn't cancelled despite attempts. I suspect Carlin would get in trouble, but since he had a strong following, it is hardly a given.

Refused to make jokes at the expense of one marginalized and vulnerable group he's part of, makes jokes at the expense of another he isn't. That's hypocrisy. The motivation to walk away was self-interested, not principled.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#56
On my daily commute in the DC Metro area (pre 9/11) I would occasionally listen to an Arabic or otherwise ME radio station. On one trip home there was a call-in talk show on the station, and that particular day was memorable because while the host and caller were both speaking Arabic (I assume), the caller would occasionally pause and switch to English when they felt they needed to express their viewpoint using exceptionally vague and ambiguous, non-committal language. It sounded exactly like White House messaging.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#57
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The better stand-up comedians are hard to distinguish from philosophers. Carlin is right up there. It's a pity he's gone, we kind of need him right now.

Note that the opposite can also be true: some philosophers can also be good comedians (in spite of the general stereotype that all philosophers are excruciatingly boring and dry, which can partially be attributed to the proliferation of analytic philosophy.) For example Slavoj Zizek has a whole book dedicated to cataloguing his (often "politically incorrect") jokes. Link here: https://meydanehonar.com/Panel/Uploads/6…

Thank you. This is why I keep coming back here. I would not have stumbled on it on my own. It hits quite hard for me.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#58

What’s the effect here? I don’t think I like soft language, but can’t really pinpoint why I don’t like it. Is it bad that some company came up with toilet paper and now it’s bathroom tissue? Shell shock is now PTSD? Who cares?

Soft language is a slippery slope that eventually allows people to do reprehensible things to each other while masking it in the warm blanket of either indifference or virtue because the vocabulary doesn't reflect the horror involved anymore and in some cases, promotes the very opposite.

Here's another example from George: calling a "rape victim" "involuntary sperm recipient". He said it in jest then but I'd believe that some committee might design such change into language of documents like police reports in order not to "offend" and spare the case worker from uncomfortable truths or some bs like that while completely neutralizing the pain and suffering of the victim.

Soft language is a long game. It's not something which effects are apparent in a year or two or even ten but decades down the line and things like that always begin in innocuous and innocent sounding targets. Like bathroom tissue.

Language is the water. We are the frog.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#59
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carlin has only ever been a "philosopher" to juveniles. He was right on corporate America and the American war machine, but he was a self-loathing misanthrope and nihilist

Nihilism and misanthropy are valid philosophical positions though.

No doubt but he's a comedian, not a philosopher. Carlin's crusty curmudgeon personality never did much for me. I'm an atheist but his whole anti religion shtick really turned me off.

Re: George Carlin's "Soft Language" (2019)

#60
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another example Carlin provides is "cripple". It can be used as both an adjective and as a verb and concisely describes the situation. It's entirely neutral and free of euphemism. He also makes a similar argument for "retarded".

I think the problem with "retarded" was that it became a pejorative. It's also just a harsh sounding word.

The term turned negative because it represented something that no one wanted to be associated with. Even if you were to use the phrase "unicorn-blessed" in the same context, over time, it could also develop a negative connotation. It's not the terminology that's a problem, but the situation it describes.

"Idiot", "moron", and "imbecile" used to be medical terms.

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