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Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#111

Post by usrusr »

soco wrote: post #36
tialaramex wrote: post #19

Once in a while I have to travel to one of the other districts of the city I live in, and I'm reminded that I happen to live in the district which once had tram lines, and you can really tell. My friend moved his young family further out, rationalising that young kids need more outdoor space (their new house is physically smaller, but in an area with woodland) and he didn't like his old neighbourhood (students, drug…

Lol "puffin crossing" - I like the concept, here's the link for us non-uk people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffin_crossing

Amazing amount of effort spent on preventing the occasional superfluous vehicle stop when the pedestrian is gone for some reason. Would be surprised if the sensors did not raise a lot of false negatives for pedestrian presence, forcing them to keep begging at the knob?

I wonder what drivers would have to say to lights that are always red unless they press some button and wait?

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#112

Post by rich_sasha »

d1sxeyes wrote: post #101
haspok wrote: post #22

I find it amusing how they did not interview one single person who thought he or she might just choose a different way of transportation, instead of driving a car, unless absolutely necessary. I used to commute in the north between two mid-sized cities, and any time I checked taking the car instead of the combined bike+rail travel would not have been faster, only much more inconvenient and more expensive (parking cos…

I'm not that surprised I'm afraid. I am familiar with South Wales more than the rest of the country, but for many, many people, they live in small, former mining villages. If they're lucky, there's a bus or two every hour going to the nearest big city. If you work outside the city, or in a different city, your commute skyrockets. Additionally, many of these small villages only have very basic Nisa Today type newsagen…

> There are also considerations around the weather, etc.

That's quite an understatement. Wales is a very wet and windy country.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#113

Post by Gud »

haspok wrote: post #22

I find it amusing how they did not interview one single person who thought he or she might just choose a different way of transportation, instead of driving a car, unless absolutely necessary. I used to commute in the north between two mid-sized cities, and any time I checked taking the car instead of the combined bike+rail travel would not have been faster, only much more inconvenient and more expensive (parking cos…

It’s not just that driving is too cheap, but the other options sucks. Whoever is designing the inner cities clearly don’t give a shit about pedestrians.

A city should be designed for pedestrians first but in the UK, the crosswalks aren’t even clearly marked!

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#114

Post by DrReachAround »

crote wrote: post #53
a-french-anon wrote: post #28

If only speed limits were designed so that breaking them always equates "reckless driving", and not sometimes (often, here) "driving at a completely normal speed considering the surrounding environment". inb4 pitchfork raising amongst the anti-car rabble

I completely agree. You can't enforce a speed limit by simply placing a speed sign and hoping everyone is going to magically follow them. More cops or speed cameras isn't going to work either. My city is currently working on a plan to lower the speed limit from 50kmh to 30kmh (30 mph to 18 mph). The entire thing is a multi-year program because it essentially means redesigning those roads from scratch. A road which ha…

That sounds absolutely miserable. You can do 18 by taking your foot off the brake.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#115

Post by CalRobert »

Gud wrote: post #113
haspok wrote: post #22

I find it amusing how they did not interview one single person who thought he or she might just choose a different way of transportation, instead of driving a car, unless absolutely necessary. I used to commute in the north between two mid-sized cities, and any time I checked taking the car instead of the combined bike+rail travel would not have been faster, only much more inconvenient and more expensive (parking cos…

It’s not just that driving is too cheap, but the other options sucks. Whoever is designing the inner cities clearly don’t give a shit about pedestrians. A city should be designed for pedestrians first but in the UK, the crosswalks aren’t even clearly marked!

A city truly designed for pedestrians would let you cross the street safely anywhere you like, not just at designated crosswalks.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#116

Post by CalRobert »

DrReachAround wrote: post #114
crote wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree. You can't enforce a speed limit by simply placing a speed sign and hoping everyone is going to magically follow them. More cops or speed cameras isn't going to work either. My city is currently working on a plan to lower the speed limit from 50kmh to 30kmh (30 mph to 18 mph). The entire thing is a multi-year program because it essentially means redesigning those roads from scratch. A road which ha…

That sounds absolutely miserable. You can do 18 by taking your foot off the brake.

What kind of car do you drive?

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#117

Post by didntcheck »

haspok wrote: post #98
phero_cnstrcts wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>still way too cheap Said no sane person ever.

For a thousand pounds you can buy a small used car, tax it, insure it and drive it around for a bit. Meanwhile an average e-bike costs more than that. Does that sound sane to you?

So e-bikes are too expensive. I don't see why we should artificially make cars more expensive in response

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#118

Post by thinkingemote »

anonymous_sorry wrote: post #31
thinkingemote wrote: post #15

In an nearby area where they have introduced 20mph for many streets the police have said that they have very low resources to properly enforce the limit and instead will be enforced "voluntarily". The council actually wanted more streets as 20mph but the police said that they really couldn't support the larger area effectively blocking it!

But every road has a speed limit. Does changing the limit change the enforcement effort?

Good question as it's somewhat counter intuitive. I think that all roads are not equally looked at by the police.

So you would have lets say 10 major roads that get a patrol twice a day, and a deployable manned speed camera between them. If we add 20 minor roads to the jobs, then the police would need extra manpower to drive down these roads and another couple of speed cameras and crew to cover this increased demand. The assumption I am making is that many of the 20 mph roads were not previously under active patrols / enforcements when they were 30mph.

Perhaps it's a kind of active enforcement versus a passive kind.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#119

Post by lamontcg »

haspok wrote: post #22

I find it amusing how they did not interview one single person who thought he or she might just choose a different way of transportation, instead of driving a car, unless absolutely necessary. I used to commute in the north between two mid-sized cities, and any time I checked taking the car instead of the combined bike+rail travel would not have been faster, only much more inconvenient and more expensive (parking cos…

> I find it amusing how they did not interview one single person who thought he or she might just choose a different way of transportation,

dropping speed limits doesn't do that.

if you want netherlands, you need to invest in biking infrastructure and traffic calming. you can't just drop the speed limits and try to declare victory.

> Today we have e-bikes and scooters, so hilly terrain is not a problem anymore.

distracted drivers are still a problem.

they dropped the speed limits to 25mph where i live and while i could buy an e-bike, i don't feel like getting myself killed for a principle, so i just drive 15 mph over the limit like literally everyone else.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#120

Post by Gud »

CalRobert wrote: post #115
Gud wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not just that driving is too cheap, but the other options sucks. Whoever is designing the inner cities clearly don’t give a shit about pedestrians. A city should be designed for pedestrians first but in the UK, the crosswalks aren’t even clearly marked!

A city truly designed for pedestrians would let you cross the street safely anywhere you like, not just at designated crosswalks.

Exactly, which is the case in many European cities. For example, Antwerp, Zürich, Stockholm, all cities where you can feel a lot safer crossing the streets(“jaywalking“) than in any big city in the UK I’ve visited
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