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Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#91

Post by alexfoo »

crote wrote: post #53
a-french-anon wrote: post #28

If only speed limits were designed so that breaking them always equates "reckless driving", and not sometimes (often, here) "driving at a completely normal speed considering the surrounding environment". inb4 pitchfork raising amongst the anti-car rabble

I completely agree. You can't enforce a speed limit by simply placing a speed sign and hoping everyone is going to magically follow them. More cops or speed cameras isn't going to work either. My city is currently working on a plan to lower the speed limit from 50kmh to 30kmh (30 mph to 18 mph). The entire thing is a multi-year program because it essentially means redesigning those roads from scratch. A road which ha…

> You can't enforce a speed limit by simply placing a speed sign and hoping everyone is going to magically follow them.

It's not flawless but sticking up signs has a reasonable effect. I'd say at least 50% of the people who drive on the local 20mph roads near me abide by the speed limit (that has not active enforcement) and this prevents quite a few others from speeding.

(I agree on the road design point though...)

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#92

Post by eesmith »

haspok wrote: post #22

I find it amusing how they did not interview one single person who thought he or she might just choose a different way of transportation, instead of driving a car, unless absolutely necessary. I used to commute in the north between two mid-sized cities, and any time I checked taking the car instead of the combined bike+rail travel would not have been faster, only much more inconvenient and more expensive (parking cos…

It seems residents in the area doesn't have much of an alternative. The train service isn't running:

> I'm travelling up the Rhondda Fawr valley from Pontypridd up to Treherbert - which is without its train line to Cardiff which is shut until the new year

Google Maps says there's half-hourly bus service from Tonypandy to Cardiff, but it takes 75 minutes, vs. 40 minutes by car.

It says the bike route is about 100 minutes.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#93

Post by prmoustache »

pjc50 wrote: post #43
haspok wrote: post #22

I find it amusing how they did not interview one single person who thought he or she might just choose a different way of transportation, instead of driving a car, unless absolutely necessary. I used to commute in the north between two mid-sized cities, and any time I checked taking the car instead of the combined bike+rail travel would not have been faster, only much more inconvenient and more expensive (parking cos…

Wales manages to have both bad public transport and bad roads and bad weather and bad parking. Perhaps the speed limit drop is intended to "nudge" people, but I'm not convinced the alternatives are quite so ready yet.

In your list, only bad public transport is a limiter.

The hills and perceived insecurity[1] are probably the biggest limiters to biking. The former being solved by e-bikes. Bad weather is not that hard to deal with than some people would think.

[1] insecurity leads to either of these 2 things: - people are afraid to ride bikes - people feel they would need to use an helmet, which most don't want to, especially women, because it mess with their hair.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#94

Post by bogle »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #50
maxehmookau wrote: post #30

As a cyclist (and a driver) in a city in England; this can't come to the rest of the UK fast enough. I see it as a failure of public policy, and a necessary result. Our streets are not designed for safe cycling and our public transport infrastructure is poor, at best. So the only way we can improve safety for cyclists and pedestrians is to reduce speed limits for cars across the board. The political will to improve r…

I’m a cyclist and disagree, given most urban bike vs car crashes happen way below 30 mph changing the speed limit won’t make a difference. What would make a difference is teaching people to cycle on the road confidently and correctly (eg taking the full lane when required) and also adding a cycling component to learning to drive to give drivers more empathy for cyclists. Both of these are too big to tackle so instead…

I agree with your points except that reducing speeds by even an average of 1mph does appear to reduce both collisions and the severity of those accidents by about 5%.

https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/32217/evaluation...

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#95

Post by alexfoo »

bananapear wrote: post #90
alexfoo wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are three speed cameras in 20mph limits near me in my area of London. Whenever I'm near them I see someone flashed by them about once every 5 minutes (one is opposite a bus stop that I often wait at). It's surprising just how many people will continue to speed past these very visible cameras.

Cloned plates

Possibly, but it's a dangerous long game to play. You're at the mercy of pretty much every Police patrol car with ANPR once the cloned plates are tagged as such. Getting caught with cloned plates is far more serious.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#96

Post by haspok »

eesmith wrote: post #92
haspok wrote: post #22

I find it amusing how they did not interview one single person who thought he or she might just choose a different way of transportation, instead of driving a car, unless absolutely necessary. I used to commute in the north between two mid-sized cities, and any time I checked taking the car instead of the combined bike+rail travel would not have been faster, only much more inconvenient and more expensive (parking cos…

It seems residents in the area doesn't have much of an alternative. The train service isn't running: > I'm travelling up the Rhondda Fawr valley from Pontypridd up to Treherbert - which is without its train line to Cardiff which is shut until the new year Google Maps says there's half-hourly bus service from Tonypandy to Cardiff, but it takes 75 minutes, vs. 40 minutes by car. It says the bike route is about 100 minu…

> which is shut until the new year

Btw. is it a coincidence that they chose to write about this exact location, at this exact point in time (when there is no alternative way of transport)? (rhetorical question)

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#97

Post by afiori »

alexfoo wrote: post #83
afiori wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is asymptotically true for high speeds but false for low speeds where 2-seconds-car is comparable to the average length of a vehicle. If the speed limit was (magically) 0.001 mph then raising it to 0.002 mph would double throughput.

But 20mph is not low enough for that to be a problem. 2 seconds at 20mph is ~18m.

It is not an overwhelming factor but if for example you were to go from 20mph to 10mph you would see an effect.

Overrall lower speed limits (when streets are designed to take advantage of them) have a lot of benefits, this is in the category of minor drawbacks.

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#98

Post by haspok »

phero_cnstrcts wrote: post #64
haspok wrote: post #22

I find it amusing how they did not interview one single person who thought he or she might just choose a different way of transportation, instead of driving a car, unless absolutely necessary. I used to commute in the north between two mid-sized cities, and any time I checked taking the car instead of the combined bike+rail travel would not have been faster, only much more inconvenient and more expensive (parking cos…

>still way too cheap Said no sane person ever.

For a thousand pounds you can buy a small used car, tax it, insure it and drive it around for a bit. Meanwhile an average e-bike costs more than that. Does that sound sane to you?

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#99

Post by tialaramex »

anonymous_sorry wrote: post #61
soco wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol "puffin crossing" - I like the concept, here's the link for us non-uk people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffin_crossing

Named thematically with pelican crossings (originally pelicon crossings - PEdestrian LIght CONtrolled), since phased out.

All London's crossings, which tourists are more likely to be familiar with, are Pelicans, although sometimes modified with countdown timers in busy areas.

London doesn't use Puffins by policy, I'm not sure exactly why - in very high density areas I can see that the Puffin features aren't helpful, but that doesn't explain a full policy.

[Differences: A Puffin's cross/ don't cross indication is local, your side of the road, next to the button and angled such that you're looking at oncoming nearside traffic as well as the indicator; whereas a Pelican has indication atop a post on the far side of the road. The timers work differently meaning Puffins can react faster if unused for a period and then called, initiating a walk cycle very quickly in this case if able; if you're road traffic the difference is that Pelicans use flashing amber and Puffins never do IIRC]

Re: Wales' 20mph speed limit: How has the first month gone?

#100

Post by lynx23 »

soco wrote: post #79
lynx23 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hardly anyone obeys it of course. Isn't is wonderful how vehicle owners are entitled to break the law, and nobody seems to care? Driving drunk, ignoring the speed limit, are all actions that directly endanger unrelated citizens. And all that vehicle operators have to say is "of course".

I'd say that's lack of enforcement "of course". And I really couldn't care less about people now claiming "ohh but that's stupid" - it's your country, vote against those speed measures if you don't like them. Or just follow them, because your own mates and not some reptilians voted for them.

I am a pedestrian. I am the one put in danger by reckless vehicle owners. No surprise that you "couldn't care less". Do you even realize that there is a demographic of people who don't own nor operate a car?
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