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Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

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Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#201
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your local university extension should be able to provide this service at a reasonable cost ($100-$500, depending on what is being tested for). There are commercial water testing firms, but I do not have experience with any that I could recommend. https://www.nifa.usda.gov/about-nifa/how-we-work/extension https://www.isws.illinois.edu/health-environmental-applicati...

Instead of testing for every one-off thing that comes up, maybe just go with a small reverse osmosis system for a similar price range.

A quality iron/hydrogen sulfide water filter sets you back about $2k, and will last ~10 years or ~500k gallons. If you do not have this in your water, you can safely skip. High iron can lead to iron reducing bacteria scumming up fixtures and, more importantly, rapidly dissolving a hot water heater tank. If you smell sulfur in your hot water when you shower on a well, that bacteria is eating up your tank's anode rod quicker than normally would (I also suggest a powered anode rod, good for 20+ years to keep a tank tip top vs having to replace consumable anode rods, but that is another topic). A three cartridge system will cost you a few hundred dollars for setup, replacing the cartridges roughly every year after ~100k gallons of water has passed through them (~$100-200/year, depending on cartridge filter selection). You can mix and match cartridges for your specific water contaminant filtering needs (sediment, iron, heavy metals, VOCs, pesticides, etc). I would agree with optimizing for use case, but RO systems can be costly and high maintenance depending on the demand put on them. They are ideal for low demand, low flow applications like a kitchen faucet or refrigerator water supply for water and ice. Design accordingly.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just searched for "remove weeds from lawn" and while they do admirably suggest manual removal methods first, the last resort measures are indeed chemical herbicides, including specifically glyphosate

that would be an insane last resort, because it would just kill the grass. you'd be better off at that point to just rototil it in and start over

Rototill is much worse for the environment. You have all the CO2 released from the effort. Plus bare ground that will erode away in wind or rain. Then you have all the organic matter in the soil you destory.

Or a little round up and plant grass seed over the top. Much less CO2, and the soil and organic matter stay in place.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#203
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Glyphosate is used for only one reason, it’s profitable for Monsanto. It's used because it's effective broad-spectrum herbicide. My understanding it's quite a bit less toxic than its predecessors, and I understand there's no equivalent replacement on the horizon. IIRC, the problem was they marketed it as practically non toxic to humans, which is definitely not the case.

> the problem was they marketed it as practically nontoxic to humans, Has their marketing stance changed? Or does Glyphosate continue to be marketed as a relatively safe solution? Roundup is still for sale at Home Depot, they sell massive quantities of it every day .

The US lacks effective regulation and the precautionary principle with respect to chemical safety, agriculture, and food safety. Food safety in the US is mostly regulated by the FDA but it is grossly underfunded, understaffed, aspirational, and ultimately laughable. Largely the only ways consumers can protect themselves is by not buying toxic chemicals and avoiding non-organic foods because there is systemic pollution in the supply chain and a lack of safety standards for chemicals.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#204
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

following that, the most prevalent use for GM crops is herbicide tolerance, where glyphosate is the most common herbicide targeted [1]. If you posted on Hacker News eight years ago that you thought it was a good idea for GM foods to be labeled, you'd be roundly mocked with all the data showing genetic modification is safe (as I'm sure is about to happen here anyway). That was never what the debate was about and it wa…

> Why GM is pushed so hard. Well go on, don't just eldude to it. Spell it out. My understanding is that GM is pushed so hard because while farming is the most necessary thing humans do, it's also highly undesirable labor and the pay is shit. It's also risky business, on a long enough timeline every crop fails. Consumers should grow their own food if they are worried. See how hard it is. My experience is that 99% of t…

> My experience is that 99% of the people who are agasinst Roundup haven't ever done a day's farming.

Sounds about right[0].

> Direct on-farm employment accounted for about 2.6 million of these jobs, or 1.3 percent of U.S. employment.

Are farmers somehow not susceptible to conflicts of interest? You suggested it yourself: The work is hard enough as it is, so the last thing farmers have time for is to pressure godlike multinational corporations into investing into alternatives. Who else is supposed to complain?

[0]: https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/ag-and-food-statistic....

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would call causing chronic kidney disease to be toxic. It sounds like they evaluated the chemical itself but didn't evaluate what could happen to the chemical once it was in the environment.

> It sounds like they evaluated the chemical itself but didn't evaluate what could happen to the chemical once it was in the environment. I bet that's most of evaluations and it's probably not even required to take into consideration the environment and how it can change the response...

And I would hazard a guess that this "mountain of evidence" was bought and paid-for by Monsanto.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I supposed you could prove me wrong: Try to find a HN thread about glyphosate where no one gaslights, deflects, toxifies or baits. Any time, in the whole history of HN. One single story , where no one tries to pretend or insinuate that Roundup / glyphosate is perfectly safe, or attack people / studies / lawsuits that suggest otherwise. The only rule is that it must have at least a dozen comments - there's no need to…

If you think that people saying that glyphosate is safe are arguing in bad faith I can see why you'd think there's a lot of disingenuousness around here. I can't speak for other people but I've defended glyphosate in plenty of threads simply because I've seen no compelling evidence of any significant danger from it in general and the specific stories we're discussing are often even weaker, with the comments sections…

> If you think that people saying that glyphosate is safe are arguing in bad faith I can see why you'd think there's a lot of disingenuousness around here.

Some people can’t detect astroturf - that’s why it works. Consider that you may be one of them.

> I've defended glyphosate in plenty of threads

Can I see an example? Google couldn't find your name + glyphosate, or + roundup together anywhere.

> I've seen no compelling evidence of any significant danger from it in general

Respectfully, I don't have any idea who you are. I’ve seen compelling evidence. So have many judges, and respected scientists, and health groups.

> This isn't me deflecting or gaslighting.

The way you blow off the link between glyphosate and kidney disease is concerning, tbh, but let's say you’re on the level. That does nothing, absolutely nothing, to dispel the notion that a giant corporation with a long history of evil and greed might employ PR goons to spread FUD and manipulate votes to warp a narrative and protect profits.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#207
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

following that, the most prevalent use for GM crops is herbicide tolerance, where glyphosate is the most common herbicide targeted [1]. If you posted on Hacker News eight years ago that you thought it was a good idea for GM foods to be labeled, you'd be roundly mocked with all the data showing genetic modification is safe (as I'm sure is about to happen here anyway). That was never what the debate was about and it wa…

> Why GM is pushed so hard. Well go on, don't just eldude to it. Spell it out. My understanding is that GM is pushed so hard because while farming is the most necessary thing humans do, it's also highly undesirable labor and the pay is shit. It's also risky business, on a long enough timeline every crop fails. Consumers should grow their own food if they are worried. See how hard it is. My experience is that 99% of t…

GM is all about pushing farmers into a dangerous monoculture and beholden to buying seed without an ability to save even their own non-GMO seed.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#208

Remember when Bayer (who now owns Monsanto) intentionally sold HIV infected blood in South America? The people that own these companies would sell their own grandmother for $5. They’re poisoning the world, as science and litigation they couldn’t buy their way out of has evidenced, and we get people on here “hacktually”ing their defense. Glyphosate is used for only one reason, it’s profitable for Monsanto.

Glyphosate is used because it is more effective and less toxic than the alternatives, and because it's straightforward to make some plants immune to it.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#209
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the problem was they marketed it as practically nontoxic to humans, Has their marketing stance changed? Or does Glyphosate continue to be marketed as a relatively safe solution? Roundup is still for sale at Home Depot, they sell massive quantities of it every day .

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/10/637722786/jury-awards-termina... >"We are sympathetic to Mr. Johnson and his family," Monsanto Vice President Scott Partridge said in a statement following the verdict. "Today's decision does not change the fact that more than 800 scientific studies and reviews ... support the fact that glyphosate does not cause cancer, and did not cause Mr. Johnson's cancer." >He confirmed the company…

They're not making up the weight of the scientific evidence there.

Re: Roundup herbicide ingredient connected to epidemic chronic kidney disease

#210
post #86
post #60

Then we wonder why people feel so good on ultra-restrictive diets like carnivore. Animals benefit from having a chemical filtration system, called a liver, while all the vegetables and fruits claimed to be healthy are treated with all sort of nonsense that cause long term chronic disease, because we value perfect looking, plump vegetables.

Also lots of people are really susceptible to placebo. The people I see on carnivore diet who feel "so amazing" now, are the same ones who feel so amazing every time they try a new diet. If the liver is so amazing at filtering all this out of the animals we eat, when why doesn't our liver do it when we eat?

If an animal consumes poisonous food, is injured by the poison (but not killed), then is butchered and none of the poison remains in the meat, then the animal has “filtered” the poison for us.

Our livers and such do filter such things out, but we are injured before/during that filtering.

A vegetable that is coated in some preservative chemical to keep its shiny coating does not filter that chemical out. Additionally, herbicides and pesticides that are sprayed on the plots may or may not be picked up by the crops and may or may not be filtered by those crops before they get to us. Or may or may not be converted to some other chemical that isn’t the same!

It’s such a complex scenario that we cannot know whether we are dosing ourselves with health or behaviour -affecting chemicals unless we spend far, far more money on research (both wide-spread statistical research and hyper-focused chemical pathway research).

Carnivore seems like a good way to get some filtering? It’s hard though, it’s expensive, questionably healthy, and questionably unethical.

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