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Scrollbars are becoming a problem

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Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#741

Post by happymellon »

JohnFen wrote: post #650
arcanemachiner wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree to disagree I guess. I don't need a window border when I can drag/resize the window from anywhere in that window.

I do need window borders. A good interface would allow enough configuration that we both could have what we want.

Agreed.

I don't "agree to disagree", they offer a function that's unusable.

It would be the equivalent of MacOS breaking the ability to double click on an app.

But it's okay because you could use Spotlight.

That's great and all, but if everything else allows double clicking and MacOS allowed double clicking but only on the absolute centre pixel, we would all consider it broken.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#742

Post by thiht »

david422 wrote: post #602
thiht wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don’t relate to anything you say. It’s like for every UI evolution you find everything that could theoretically go wrong, and say that it’s definitely a problem. Like: > Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window What? When has that ever happened to anyone? I use Postman and Chrome daily and I have no idea what you think is so unusable about them?

Open up two black terminal windows on Ubuntu that overlap and there is literally zero differentiation between the two.

Ok, but how is that an actual problem? You can use visual context to differentiate both windows, you’re not a visual AI. Also when does that happen that you have 2 terminals that overlap? I’d rather have my UIs be optimized for the 99% of usage, I don’t care if they lack affordances for cases that never happen in practice

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#743

Post by masswerk »

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #716
masswerk wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, in the era of dedicated title bars, there used to be a huge drag button for easily relocating the window, wherever you wanted it to be.

While this is true, it also turns a task that takes only one action (resize the window up or to the left from an edge or corner) into one that requires three or four (move window, resize window from bottom right corner, readjust window position). Hardly friendly, if you ask me.

I guess, it's a question of perspective. For me, maybe due to habit, these are two distinct actions: moving the origin and resizing the viewport. And I'm actually not comfortable with having to combine them in a single interaction. More often, I do not want to combine both, especially on a larger screen. Moving the viewport or its origin is a matter of the desktop metaphor, as well as altering stacking in the Z-order. Resizing it is on an entirely different level and relates to another kind of mental model or mapping, relating to aspect ratio and field of view, which, if changed, requires a remapping of the situational awareness regarding everything that makes the desktop metaphor. (BTW, I also hate snapping windows.)

Personally, I think, it's this kind of constant overloading, which makes modern interfaces harder to use, or at least, causing them to put more strain on the user. (I guess, as interaction is becoming more and more the message and thus the media, like in constantly pulling the content area for more to load or swiping one thing away to see another thing, this is probably just as it ought to be. But this is essentially slot machine territory and not a working environment.)

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#744

Post by fingerlocks »

JohnFen wrote: post #645
fingerlocks wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow I thought the New Teams menu was an internal dog food thing for Microsoft employees. I’m so sorry, it’s absolutely maddening. Nobody likes Teams at Microsoft either, and many hours a week are wasted complaining about it.

> Nobody likes Teams at Microsoft either Then why can't they make Teams not terrible?

I don’t know man. It’s a big company and far removed from my team. If I had to guess, probably because of too many Chefs in the kitchen

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#745

Post by girishso »

epistasis wrote: post #9

I run into so many websites that I think are completely broken because they have a scollable popover or some other weird element, but it's impossible to tell that there is content because the scroll bar is hidden on this small interior frame. Absolutely infuriating. I blame iOS and macOS for encouraging this insanity and starting the fashion trend, and tangentially whoever pushed along this whole "flat" UI trend that…

I don’t even understand how this flat ui thing got popular

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#746

Post by krackers »

bastawhiz wrote: post #106

I'm generally not a person to die on hills like this, but the disappearing scroll bars on macOS have really been a point of significant contention for me. Sometimes I just want to click and drag a scrollbar. And it seemingly takes an act of god to get it to appear (you can't just hover, you have to two-finger scroll first). And then in order to get it to stay, you need to keep your mouse horizontally positioned on th…

>And it seemingly takes an act of god to get it to appear (you can't just hover, you have to two-finger scroll first)

It's supposed to show up by just doing a two finger tap. It works in native apps. For some reason chrome doesn't respect this though, I think because maybe they reimplement some part of it on their own.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#747

Post by velox_neb »

SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #536
Varriount wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is something that's always puzzled me - why is searching in Windows always so gosh darn slow? You'd think with an entire background service dedicated to file indexing, I'd be able to quickly find files in a directory tree with the word "foo" in their file name or contents, but even with a modern SSD it still takes at least a minute on any remotely populated directory.

Microsoft should just buy Everything off Voidtools because they have perfected Windows search and it boggles my mind that Microsoft can't recreate that.

> Microsoft should just buy Everything off Voidtools

Don't give them ideas, they'd find some way to ruin it.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#748

Post by neodymiumphish »

codalan wrote: post #135

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

The only solution I've found for addressing this in any meaningful way is AltSnap[0], which lets me avoid needing to find window borders for any resizing or moving operations.

[0]: https://github.com/RamonUnch/AltSnap/releases

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#749

Post by Jenda_ »

hulitu wrote: post #723
xtracto wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

File search in graphical Linux is terrible as well. Just the other day i was trying to do sone simple file search in Mint and oh god the GUI search function is completely useless. I had to jump around installing 3 "file search" programs, none of them really worked and at the end I settled with some console bash magic. ... its 2023 people.

Locate works great.

Locate is for file names, not file contents.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#750

Post by Jenda_ »

squarefoot wrote: post #427

Scrollbars are becoming indeed a problem, but what about struggling to find the right spot on a window corner/border to grab in order to resize it? Did they test how much of a hassle can be to grab a two pixel wide area on a 13" screen laptop? I can understand they need real estate to be used for actual content, but seriously how hard would be to have a small "handle" that protrudes out of the closest window corner/b…

> struggling to find the right spot on a window corner/border to grab in order to resize it

I suggest mapping +click (e.g. Meta/Win key + left or right click) to trigger resize/move anywhere in the window.

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