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Scrollbars are becoming a problem

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Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#711

Post by wilg »

iainmerrick wrote: post #435
wilg wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean it's been basically one change to the scrollbar in 40 years. And you can turn them on again if you care.

On macOS at least, it's not one change, it's at least four: - scrollbars overlaying the content, rather than having dedicated space - scrollbars that auto-hide when not in use - scrollbars that are initially narrow, then widen when you mouse-over - removal of the scroll buttons That's not including the visual design changes, which are arguably important too (e.g. the scroll "thumb" now has a very flat design rather t…

That's all one change, because they redesigned it once! You can't just pick apart all the elements of the design to claim its multiple changes.

I agree the proportional scrollbar was good.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#712

Post by m3047 »

codalan wrote: post #135

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

I responded to something UI-related recently and closed with "if the cloud made shoes there'd be different ones for grass and concrete, but they'd all be the same size so you'd have to stuff them with prosthetics if your feet were too small or cut off toes if they were to large" and some kind stranger gifted me with a word:

    Procrustean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procrustes
I re-gift it to you, hopefully you will find it useful as well.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#713

Post by kps »

hulitu wrote: post #688
kps wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, we wouldn't need "dark mode" or the such … People with cataracts may benefit from dark mode. People with glaucoma or higher order aberrations (e.g. me) may benefit from light mode. Web sites should use `prefers-color-scheme`; native GUI programs should use the native equivalents (or default colours); command-line programs should not assume a particular background. Edit: there's a comment chain that fell off t…

The main problem is that there is no dark or light mode. It is light gray on white or dark gray on black (and the white and black are also gray). It is just sick.

Low contrast is a problem, but high-contrast light mode and high-contrast dark mode are each also problems for some people.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#714

Post by zo1 »

CoryAlexMartin wrote: post #545

It’s very funny and strange that one of the defining characteristics of modern GUI design is that everything is very large. Lots of whitespace, buttons twice as tall as the cursor, windows that have to be maximized in order to see more than seven lines of content, and yet the scrollbars are the size of a toothpick.

And the entire content area for some no-longer-relevant reason is maxed at 1000px. It's like the designers got stuck with bootstrap from 2014 and can't seem to get unstuck.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#715

Post by Wistar »

pjettter wrote: post #701
Wistar wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dressing up of digital controls to mimic analog controls is called skeuomorphic although I have not encountered the term in a long time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeuomorph

Yes, the “digital version” that mimics the analog one. It was cute in the mid 90’s. I want actual physical knobs.not sure what that would be called. Potentiometers?

Rotary encoders, I think.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#716

Post by forgotmypw17 »

masswerk wrote: post #406
forgotmypw17 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does make it easier to resize a window from the bottom left corner, which is indeed where you want to resize the window from in the majority of cases. However, if you want to resize the window from the top or from the left, that does not help you much.

To be fair, in the era of dedicated title bars, there used to be a huge drag button for easily relocating the window, wherever you wanted it to be.

While this is true, it also turns a task that takes only one action (resize the window up or to the left from an edge or corner) into one that requires three or four (move window, resize window from bottom right corner, readjust window position).

Hardly friendly, if you ask me.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#717

Post by stcredzero »

Pannoniae wrote: post #10

I have come to a funny realisation recently. It's not my eyesight which is becoming worse, it's the UIs which are becoming worse. The tiny scrollbars with laughable contrast are in no way accessible to anyone. I've recently switched to using KDE with the Oxygen theme and it's a joy to use without any eye strain. These scrollbars are absolutely pathetic, with no room for customisation. (good luck theming a locked-down…

The tiny scrollbars with laughable contrast are in no way accessible to anyone...It's blatant how UI designers don't give a damn about the users’ needs

I’ve seen this trend going on for over a decade now, like a slow parabolic arc. Somehow the aim of developers and designers turned around 180 degrees and became less and less about pleasing the users and more and more about impressing other people in your field. (Both programming and design.)

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#719

Post by hulitu »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #657
JohnFen wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By moving things to the title bar, you gain back some real estate that you can dedicate to this ever expanding set of other tools and content. But the loss of the title bar causes actual pain and interferes with practical use. It's hard to imagine any tools/content that would be worth that loss.

The only programs I have that are putting things in the titlebar are putting tabs there, and those programs do not cause me notable problems. For me the positives are much stronger than the negatives.

Well, MS Excel , Word etc. put a search widget and a user widget in the.title bar which occupy the whole thing. Moving Office windows is a pain.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#720

Post by codedokode »

couchand wrote: post #709
pjettter wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then you have to “draw circles” with your mouse?

The UI usually maps linear motion quite naturally. In real use the control is mapped to a physical knob via MIDI, if you'll be tweaking it on the fly.

No. There are so many plugins and so many knobs that you will never have enough MIDI control panels and time to set them up.
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