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Scrollbars are becoming a problem

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Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#681

Post by gattr »

speeder wrote: post #69
Pannoniae wrote: post #10

I have come to a funny realisation recently. It's not my eyesight which is becoming worse, it's the UIs which are becoming worse. The tiny scrollbars with laughable contrast are in no way accessible to anyone. I've recently switched to using KDE with the Oxygen theme and it's a joy to use without any eye strain. These scrollbars are absolutely pathetic, with no room for customisation. (good luck theming a locked-down…

I don't use dark mode for contrast, I use because a lot of software "light mode" is just plain white. And screens been getting more and more powerful. Often using software without white mode the thing is so bright, that the walls near me get lighted up as if I was using a flashlight or something. Thus I have to make the screen less bright, but often this also make the screen colors and contrast get all screwy and I s…

I've been using dark themes whenever possible for a few years now, but recently realized much of unpleasantness of light mode comes for me from it being too blue w.r.t. the ambient lighting conditions. Playing with the slider in "Night Color" under KDE or "Night light" under Windows does the trick.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#682

Post by bonton89 »

l0b0 wrote: post #260
MenhirMike wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 2000 was the last truly great Windows for me. It was the last Windows version that had a working "Find in File Contents" feature without having to install grepwin.

Recursive agree to all the above, purely in terms of UI/UX. Firefox currently has about 20x20 pixels next to the tabs to grab and move the window, and "always show scrollbars" is off by default. This would be reasonable on a phone, but not on any kind of machine with a mouse.

Can you not right click and enable menu bar to get the traditional menu (plus a title bar of sorts) back for this?

I'm not really defending firefox UI to strongly here, I use it every day as my browser of choice and I find the defaults wonky but at least customizable.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#683

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

EGreg wrote: post #243
codalan wrote: post #135

It's not just scrollbars. It's the elimination of window borders. Aside from not being able to differentiate one window from another similarly colored window in the background, it's nearly impossible to click and hold on anything along the edge to resize the window. It's the overloading of the title bar with so much shit like search boxes and extraneous buttons that a user has almost no place to grip to move the wind…

Is it just me or is Discord super unintuitive? And Slack is becoming that way too. Telegram by contrast is a pleasure!

> Is it just me or is Discord super unintuitive?

I'm always baffled when people say this. I understood Discord immediately and fail to understand why people are so confused by it.

You have a list of servers you're in on the far left, you click one, and you get a list of channels. Click the channel, and if it's a voice channel, you can now talk. If it's a text channel, it shows the channel and you can chat. Voice channels have a speaker icon that make it obvious it's a voice channel.

Some servers will initially hide all the channels except one where you need to click a reaction on some bot's message to acknowledge their rules.

The only thing that Discord screws up on, IMO, is the configuration of notifications. You've got your account-wide notifications, server notifications, channel notifications, and the handling of @everyone and @here. Getting the exact behavior you want is tricky sometimes.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#684

Post by fritzo »

kuchenbecker wrote: post #491
fritzo wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws to mandate accessibility, laws to mandate provable correctness, laws to mandate fairness, and laws to break up the big, for only the big could satisfy all the other laws.

Is that a reference I'm missing?

No reference I know of. I'm just struggling to balance on the one hand each field's demand to be taken seriously (and since the public doesn't take them seriously, experts appeal to legislators for validation), and on the other hand the Brandeisian push against Bigness that arises after decades of regulatory capture.

I have no stake in a11y, but I hear the same appeal re software correctness and statistical significance and many other individually reasonable asks, that nevertheless add up to a gridlock of regulations.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#685

Post by ourmandave »

xahrepap wrote: post #581
pjettter wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often wish we had more analog control in the digital world. I wish there were turn knobs instead up/down buttons with 10 steps (where it is easy to accidentally leave a menu... When trying to get back to where you were, you are suddenly adjusting something else entirely). Manual control with digital devices has become too digital and too cumbersome. It used to be easy to adjust contrast and brightness on a display,…

And when you finally have a along controls everything is overloaded. Dish forced a new remote on us last time a device broke and they replaced it. It has far fewer buttons. I’m sure it helps getting familiar with it on a super basic level. But the old one wasn’t that complicated anyhow. But here’s the kicker: there’s no fast forward or rewind buttons. There no stop button. No record button. All of these (and more) ha…

The reverse of that is the 4-in-one replacement remote with it's bazillion buttons.

It's like a 747 cockpit.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#686

Post by david422 »

tcfhgj wrote: post #651
JohnFen wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If things are so tight in the layout that taking the title bar away is actually necessary, then the layout is already fundamentally bad.

It's not necessary, still helps

Oh come on. Why even have a title bar at that point. Why not just stick a little tab on the side and get rid of the title bar entirely.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#687

Post by kps »

gattr wrote: post #681
speeder wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't use dark mode for contrast, I use because a lot of software "light mode" is just plain white. And screens been getting more and more powerful. Often using software without white mode the thing is so bright, that the walls near me get lighted up as if I was using a flashlight or something. Thus I have to make the screen less bright, but often this also make the screen colors and contrast get all screwy and I s…

I've been using dark themes whenever possible for a few years now, but recently realized much of unpleasantness of light mode comes for me from it being too blue w.r.t. the ambient lighting conditions. Playing with the slider in "Night Color" under KDE or "Night light" under Windows does the trick.

Or change your monitor's colour temperature setting. It probably defaults to 6500K, and you want something in the 5000K–6000K range.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#688

Post by hulitu »

kps wrote: post #528
Pannoniae wrote: post #10

I have come to a funny realisation recently. It's not my eyesight which is becoming worse, it's the UIs which are becoming worse. The tiny scrollbars with laughable contrast are in no way accessible to anyone. I've recently switched to using KDE with the Oxygen theme and it's a joy to use without any eye strain. These scrollbars are absolutely pathetic, with no room for customisation. (good luck theming a locked-down…

> Also, we wouldn't need "dark mode" or the such … People with cataracts may benefit from dark mode. People with glaucoma or higher order aberrations (e.g. me) may benefit from light mode. Web sites should use `prefers-color-scheme`; native GUI programs should use the native equivalents (or default colours); command-line programs should not assume a particular background. Edit: there's a comment chain that fell off t…

The main problem is that there is no dark or light mode. It is light gray on white or dark gray on black (and the white and black are also gray). It is just sick.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#689

Post by hulitu »

steve1977 wrote: post #604
agloe_dreams wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today in HN: A billion armchair rants about Windows 2000 being the best UI forgetting just how much it actually sucked at usability or accessibility features.

I'll have to admit that I don't know about its accessability features, but I was at least as productive in Windows 2000 and XP as I am in todays systems.

In Windows 10 i lost a lot of time because of UI bugs: double click registered on single mouse clicks, UI elements dissapearing when connecting monitors, no scrollbars, no window border, no titlebar.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#690

Post by pjettter »

xahrepap wrote: post #581
pjettter wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often wish we had more analog control in the digital world. I wish there were turn knobs instead up/down buttons with 10 steps (where it is easy to accidentally leave a menu... When trying to get back to where you were, you are suddenly adjusting something else entirely). Manual control with digital devices has become too digital and too cumbersome. It used to be easy to adjust contrast and brightness on a display,…

And when you finally have a along controls everything is overloaded. Dish forced a new remote on us last time a device broke and they replaced it. It has far fewer buttons. I’m sure it helps getting familiar with it on a super basic level. But the old one wasn’t that complicated anyhow. But here’s the kicker: there’s no fast forward or rewind buttons. There no stop button. No record button. All of these (and more) ha…

Yes direkt a 1:1 mapping of an analog (button/knob) would work better than what you describe.

Multifunction buttons… that never existed in the analog world? Or is that what is called “mode”? Send vs receive etc. Does anyone have a concrete example?

I’m not a remote control designer but I would think it would be fun to give it a try! Maybe I will :)

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