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Scrollbars are becoming a problem

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Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#301

Post by masklinn »

jwells89 wrote: post #68
hypercube33 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that but it seems like color from icons has gone - now we get black and white ones. I'd get it if these companies making the UX were small, because yes its super hard to deal with accessibility and different color blindness but I agree - we've lost anything but the extremest of the extreme colors.

The ironic thing about icons losing their color and detail is that it happened right as high DPI displays began to become commonplace in consumer hardware. We have these amazing screens with barely visible pixels and excellent color reproduction being wasted on rendering monochrome lines.

Monochrome lines are cool tho, ink or charcoal can be gorgeous, and “barely visible pixels” are genuinely needed to get them.

That aside, high dpi displays are still a rare sight on desktops, there’s not many of them and the aspect ratios and ancillary features are extremely limited.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#302

Post by Fatnino »

worik wrote: post #269
MenhirMike wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 2000 was the last truly great Windows for me. It was the last Windows version that had a working "Find in File Contents" feature without having to install grepwin.

Windows 3.1 for me

If you double click in the top left corner of most windows they will close. Leftover behavior from 3.1

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#303

Post by nerdponx »

masklinn wrote: post #291
lstamour wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything old is new again? I remember when people were deriding Windows XP for being "Fisher-Price" in appearance and preferring to run Windows 2000 because it was more stable (until roughly SP2 came out, which basically was an entirely new OS released as a service pack). Windows 7, which was Vista's equivalent to SP2 also has some fans. Heck, I'd even personally argue that Windows ME has some niceties not seen in…

> Everything old is new again? I remember when people were deriding Windows XP for being "Fisher-Price" in appearance and preferring to run Windows 2000 because it was more stable That’s more of a truth universally acknowledged. XP was goofy then, it’s goofy now, and it was goofy at every instant between.

Yes but in hindsight endearingly so. And the UX itself was still really good. The start menu in particular was an actual improvement over the old one, as were the clickable login screen icons.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#304

Post by kuratkull »

I recently got really frustrated with Firefoxes almost invisibly thin scrollbar. Messed around in about:config and managed to make it fatter, but it made all the scrollbars inside web pages also fatter - not what I wanted at all. I'll try if only changing what was mentioned in the article helps with that. Bring back reasonably sized scrollbars, please.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#305

Post by m0nhawk »

I find `overflow: scroll` is the worst (fair, it has it's uses), but I'm perplexed by seeing sites that has scrollbars on Windows when content absolutely perfectly fits on the screen.

Regularly do I visit sites that's infested with scrollbars, because every second element have this set - but it looks good on macOS, right?

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#306

Post by SkiFire13 »

treyd wrote: post #112
Pannoniae wrote: post #10

I have come to a funny realisation recently. It's not my eyesight which is becoming worse, it's the UIs which are becoming worse. The tiny scrollbars with laughable contrast are in no way accessible to anyone. I've recently switched to using KDE with the Oxygen theme and it's a joy to use without any eye strain. These scrollbars are absolutely pathetic, with no room for customisation. (good luck theming a locked-down…

> It's blatant how UI designers don't give a damn about the users' needs, not even in FOSSland. Especially with this new "don't theme my app" movement. It's really unfortunate. The issues with CSS stylesheets in GTK should be solved with replacing CSS with a better way to describe styles, not with just throwing it all away and not letting the user set their own themes.

"don't theme my app" is not about users theming their apps, but instead against distros theming by default and more importantly the expectation that you could theme every app with a generic theme.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#307

Post by fingerlocks »

masswerk wrote: post #239
wilg wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

??? macOS (and iOS) is designed this way because of the gesture you want! You don't need the scrollbar because you have the gesture. If you want to see where you are in the page you just scroll a teeny bit. It works great, I haven't seen a scrollbar in years and its never a problem. Sure, some accessibility options are nice for some people.

What is the gesture for "let's go to page 196 of this 320 pages document"?

cmd+option+g

How do you do that glancing at an always visible scroll bar?

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#308

Post by nerdponx »

dylan604 wrote: post #208
jorvi wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was one of the biggest powers of Mac OS X, before Electron became big. Not many companies and people developed for Mac OS X, but the ones that did pretty strongly adhered to Apple’s design guidelines, partially because it just made dev live easier and partially because your application would stick out like a sore thumb if you didn’t. At least the global menu still lives on macOS. I’m sad Gnome 3 didn’t pilfer it…

>your application would stick out like a sore thumb if you didn’t. Anybody else remember the UI from the Photoshop plugins from Kai[0]? You clicked the plugin, and then you were looking at some alien organic texture full screen with a few adjustment sliders. That was someone that said, "I see your UI suggestions, but I have other ideas" [0] https://mprove.de/script/99/kai/

This is the most intensely 90s software aesthetic I have ever seen.

Edit: Holy shit, Bryce! I think I had that on my family PC. We were really into Myst and Riven at the time and I guess someone thought it would be fun to try to make our own 3D worlds. It turns out that making digital art actually requires art skills and I don't think I ever created anything with it.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#309

Post by inferiorhuman »

arcanemachiner wrote: post #279
inferiorhuman wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya know one of the first things I do on an XP install is to go in and disable as much of UI faffing about as I can. It takes a couple of clicks, but once you disable themes in XP you get something that looks quite a lot like Windows 2000.

I did it because my computer was a POS. But then it turns out I have a minimalism kink, so I've been doing that ever since. I use XFCE btw

Yep I got into the habit of doing that because I run XP in a virtual machine for legacy junk. I actually had opportunity to run classic MacOS recently and realize that I largely prefer the 10.x UI especially once they started toning down the decorations. Classic MacOS got a lot of things right that are missing in current operating systems, but man is it ugly.

Re: Scrollbars are becoming a problem

#310

Post by matsemann »

kuratkull wrote: post #304

I recently got really frustrated with Firefoxes almost invisibly thin scrollbar. Messed around in about:config and managed to make it fatter, but it made all the scrollbars inside web pages also fatter - not what I wanted at all. I'll try if only changing what was mentioned in the article helps with that. Bring back reasonably sized scrollbars, please.

Yeah, that's also an issue: developers on Macs not realizing that other setups have visible scrollbars.

So they have overflow bugs in their webpage, but they're masked by the lack of visible scroll bars to them. Other users however see a broken site.

And of course blame their browser, so even more browsers/setups hide their scrollbars to not be blamed..

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