Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025 • Hacker News Board

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#231

Post by CalRobert » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 7:48 AM UTC

carlosjobim wrote: post #163

CalRobert wrote: post #20

It's small, but it's a start. Next, remove as many cars as possible (some deliveries, taxis, and emergency vehicles make sense, as well as microcars for people who need them, of course). I'm appalled at the people here saying you need a car to lead a full life. A car-dependent life is an empty and sad one for many of us. I moved to the Netherlands with my family (two young daughters) and it has been _absolutely fanta…

Instead of hacker banning everything you don't personally like, isn't it better if people do what you did and move to a place where things are as they wish? Can't you be satisfied that you achieved what works for you and your family and not strive to implement your will onto the entire planet? I used to live in the outback without electricity or running water, and no cars around. It was lovely and I'll probably do it…

I don't see how me wanting car-free areas in the centre of dense cities impinges on your ability to live in the sticks.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#232

Post by CalRobert » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 7:49 AM UTC

southernplaces7 wrote: post #189

CalRobert wrote: post #20

It's small, but it's a start. Next, remove as many cars as possible (some deliveries, taxis, and emergency vehicles make sense, as well as microcars for people who need them, of course). I'm appalled at the people here saying you need a car to lead a full life. A car-dependent life is an empty and sad one for many of us. I moved to the Netherlands with my family (two young daughters) and it has been _absolutely fanta…

[flagged]

My proposal for the middle of cities is not relevant to what you're saying here.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#233

Post by southernplaces7 » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 9:32 AM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #216

southernplaces7 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By all means, those who are downvoting, explain the specific thing that's wrong about what I commented. Deciding from specific, circumstantial privilege about the wrongness or rightness of others necessities in the wider world is indeed an inherently shitty habit. So too is ignoring one's own hypocrisy in deriding certain broadly used things.

Complaining about downvotes on a public forum is also a "shitty habit." As is basically calling people names in said forum.

And why should it be? The silly HN "taboo" about mentioning downvotes is just that, silly. It's a tacit means of sidelining someone who might often have valid reasons for questioning why certain hivemind tendencies simply downvote valid points, with no reasoned counterargument, apparently because they emotionally dislike what they're reading. It's very common on this site and absolutely worth calling out in many cases, instead of automatically being considered shitty. Don't want people to complain about downvotes occasionally? Don't have them on the site.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#234

Post by southernplaces7 » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 9:35 AM UTC

hyperman1 wrote: post #199

southernplaces7 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think you're reading too much into your parent's comment. I personally am pro limiting cars. But, if you have to go further than 10km or move a load of stuff around, go ahead, by all means. My personal experience with cars is daily hours of gridlock hell, with drivers screaming, cutting you off, and being generally nasty. Car sickness from the stop start stop start as bonus. I much rather take the train, do some la…

I mostly agree with what you say, but for your last point about respect, I was essentially making the same argument, that one shouldn't flatly dismiss a certain practice because they themselves don't have a reason for it.

I have no problem at all with urban dwellers (or anyone) who choose not to own or drive cars. It's their choice and perfectly valid for their own reasons and needs. The same courtesy should go the other way too though.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#235

Post by ecmascript » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 9:42 AM UTC

estomagordo wrote: post #167

ecmascript wrote: post #36

As a Swede born and raised in Stockholm but no longer live there I wonder if delivery trucks and people working (carpenters etc) will be excempt from these rules? This is a serious question because the changes comes (mainly) from a radical left wing political party that had deliveries on the subway as a serious solution to banning car traffic. Personally I don't really care since I don't live in Stockholm anymore but…

The party is hardly "radical" by any standard means of measure, and there is not a single indicator that population growth in Stockholm will come to a halt. You're merely making the mistake of assuming that others are like you.

What standard means of measure are you referring to exactly?

I guess time will tell, but if you look at statistics many country side smaller cities are growing when in the past they were shrinking for a really long time. The wind is vänding.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#236

Post by junofan » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 10:01 AM UTC

pornel wrote: post #156

verisimi wrote: post #59

The people in nordic countries seem so naive to me. They trust their governments, their authorities to do this stuff, to both determine the greater good and then implement it. The political class couldn't possibly act immorally, for their own benefit, apparently. Whereas the reality is that these actions are preplanned internationally and designed (by opaque agencies such the club of Rome and the UN) in order for ind…

US seems to be an exception in the developed world with such high distrust of the government. It's probably a self-fulfilling expectation: the government can't be effective without trust. Without support, it can't pass strong regulations that make a difference. So you get an ineffective government, and watered-down lobbied laws that easily fall to regulatory capture, and you can say "told you so!"

I guess, though there’s a lot more money at stake. The US federal government is probably the most powerful bureaucracy in human history (and certainly among the biggest). I trust my local and state governments way more. But I wouldn’t trust them to run the whole country. Scale seems to matter a lot.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#237

Post by rajnathani » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 10:31 AM UTC

We also need to reach a point where all vehicles have technology like this [0] to capture tyre wear particles at the source.

[0] https://www.designboom.com/technology/device-captures-harmfu...

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#238

Post by sakjur » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 11:53 AM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #103

londons_explore wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://geology.com/usgs/oil-shale/estonia-sweden-oil-shale....

And just how much money are tzey making of that? Oil nation money?

It depends a little bit on what you're counting. Prospecting and extracting oil is illegal as of july last year (SFS 2022:728), but Sweden is exporting a fair amount of refined petroleum.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#239

Post by boxed » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 12:29 PM UTC

megabless123 wrote: post #13

boxed wrote: post #6

It's a tiny part of the center of Stockholm. https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/stockholm/bensin-och-diese... has a map. Roughly 4x4 blocks.

nice, sounds like a great start that is better than 0x0 blocks

Well.. There are lots of roads that closed totally for cars over the years, and quite a few after COVID.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#240

Post by martindbp » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 12:30 PM UTC

Nullabillity wrote: post #62

reisse wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not-interested in having a full Western-life experience (which necessitates having a car) American life experience, you mean? It's totally OK to live in Stockholm, as well as in many other cities in Europe, without a car. Besides, you make it sound like EVs are more expensive than ICE cars. They surely are, but the difference is not that much and subsidies cover a part of it.

> It's totally OK to live in Stockholm Not really. You can usually (sort of) take public transport to commute into the centre, but try to do anything else and the model falls apart quickly.

I've lived in central Stockholm for 10 years with kids, it's amazing, but perhaps not for everyone. I also lived the car dependent life in the US and it made me mildly depressed.