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Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

theguardian.com

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Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#31

Post by Zee38484 »

Etheryte wrote: post #17
Nullabillity wrote: post #8

Maybe focus on building out a competent public transport system first, rather than halving the capacity of the commuter rail. Or fix the several islands (both literal and metaphorical) that are effectively cut off from the main system. It's like these people live in a parallel reality where nobody needs to get in our out of the inner city.

In my experience, the public transport system in Stockholm is pretty fine, is there a specific qualm you have with it? You don't have to be able to drive your car directly into the heart of the city.

[flagged]

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#32

Post by outwit »

paganel wrote: post #14
f6v wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Western life experience necessitate a car? Big cities don’t require a car at all.

> How does Western life experience necessitate a car? First of all, taking your kids by car to a much better school. Because we sure as hell cannot afford to own property close to those better schools.

What are the much better schools in the center of Stockholm that you're thinking of? I think the level of education is really good in most Swedish schools, so if you want one that's farther away for reasons... electric car or public transport

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#33

Post by wwtrv »

reisse wrote: post #11
paganel wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see they went with the "think of the children": > The study found that children who grow up on roads in the capital with particularly high emissions have worse-than-average lung capacity when compared to other children, from as early as six months old. This will only accelerate the move to the suburbs of the families having children themselves and who can't yet afford an EV, leaving the cities themselves (as I susp…

> not-interested in having a full Western-life experience (which necessitates having a car) American life experience, you mean? It's totally OK to live in Stockholm, as well as in many other cities in Europe, without a car. Besides, you make it sound like EVs are more expensive than ICE cars. They surely are, but the difference is not that much and subsidies cover a part of it.

> It's totally OK to live in Stockholm, as well as in many other cities in Europe

And/or having a car is too expensive for some so people make do..

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#34

Post by hef19898 »

JoachimS wrote: post #28
paganel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How does Western life experience necessitate a car? First of all, taking your kids by car to a much better school. Because we sure as hell cannot afford to own property close to those better schools.

You have obviously not been to Stockholm during morning rush. Stockholm have an extensive subway, as well as buses. Or just using the (often quite wide) sidewalks to walk. The amount of kids moving around (themselves) to get to their schools is almost overwhelming. Oh, and the best schools are really in the downtown area. Which is why children, kids, teenagers use the public transport from all around the metro area b…

Yeah, seeing 7 year olds taking the subway with their parents, just to change two stations later like any other commuter, is always a fun and cool thing to see.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#36

Post by ecmascript »

As a Swede born and raised in Stockholm but no longer live there I wonder if delivery trucks and people working (carpenters etc) will be excempt from these rules? This is a serious question because the changes comes (mainly) from a radical left wing political party that had deliveries on the subway as a serious solution to banning car traffic.

Personally I don't really care since I don't live in Stockholm anymore but that city is very hostile against car traffic in general (which is stupid in my opinion). Finding a parking space in the outskirts of the city is very hard and I have searched for a spot in like an hour when visiting my family. They build a lot of housing but no parking spaces for residents. Sometimes if you're lucky they'll build like 1 parking space per 20 residents when in reality 19 of these residents have a car. I know personally some areas close to my mother where they have taken areas for parking and built housing there making the actual parking spaces go negative.

Fine if you want to get rid of petrol/diesel but there are alternatives and you don't have to make things shitty for people with electric cars as well.

I think people will start moving from Stockholm because who wants to live in a city where housing is 3-4 times the national avg, people being shot all the time and even blown up when in bed in your own home. Then the politicians responsible cares more about making it more expensive for you to go to work which all seems more meaningless since you pay so much in taxes that goes to immigration and people not contributing to society.

Productive will move to the country side where they can safely drive to work and work less because working hard is just not worth it in Sweden.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#37

Post by vel0city »

johngalt_ wrote: post #19
paganel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How does Western life experience necessitate a car? First of all, taking your kids by car to a much better school. Because we sure as hell cannot afford to own property close to those better schools.

Have you ever heard of school bus?

A lot private schools in the US don't offer transportation services. Many school districts in the US won't do transportation if you're trying to go to any school that you're not originally zoned for. So if you want to send your kids to a nicer private school or if the school you're zoned for is trash, you're in charge of getting them to school.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#38

Post by qwytw »

poniko wrote: post #12
paganel wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see they went with the "think of the children": > The study found that children who grow up on roads in the capital with particularly high emissions have worse-than-average lung capacity when compared to other children, from as early as six months old. This will only accelerate the move to the suburbs of the families having children themselves and who can't yet afford an EV, leaving the cities themselves (as I susp…

Generally people with children dont live in the center of Stockholm and a high % already drive electric. Biggest change is that delivery/transport services have to find alternatives and Im really happy about that, everyone benifit from removing "heavy loud polluting traffic" in the city.

> "heavy loud polluting traffic" in the city.

yeah, that's great but.. Modern engines are already pretty "clean", significant proportion (if not the majority?) of PM 2.5 and PM 0.1 particles come from breaks and tires so EV are not really the solution for inner city pollution.

(and the effect on CO2 emissions is immaterial in this case)

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#39

Post by londons_explore »

hyperman1 wrote: post #22
boxed wrote: post #6

It's a tiny part of the center of Stockholm. https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/stockholm/bensin-och-diese... has a map. Roughly 4x4 blocks.

It can grow. A few cities started car-free or car polution limiting zones. Every year,the zone grows and the rules get stricter. This way makes it safe to feel the waters, tweak public transports, get people's reaction, without killing it in the cradle.

It's pretty expensive for the city to do that. Tons of signage needs to be removed and replaced with every expansion, and if you choose automated enforcement you need to install lots of new cameras and posts too.

Easier to start with one big zone over the whole city, and keep making the requirements stricter automatically. Eg. Take the cars age, add the current year, subtract the cars rated mpg, add 10 if it's a diesel. If the result is 2050 or more, there is a fine of $20/day if you drive it.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#40

Post by DrThunder »

f6v wrote: post #9
paganel wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see they went with the "think of the children": > The study found that children who grow up on roads in the capital with particularly high emissions have worse-than-average lung capacity when compared to other children, from as early as six months old. This will only accelerate the move to the suburbs of the families having children themselves and who can't yet afford an EV, leaving the cities themselves (as I susp…

How does Western life experience necessitate a car? Big cities don’t require a car at all.

Why is what's "required" a consideration? Almost nothing in modern life is required. You don't need AC, heat, refrigeration, video games, movies etc. NONE of that is a requirement and it all contributes to climate change.

Part of living in a free society is that you get to have things that aren't required. IF I want to buy the biggest gas guzzling truck there is, I should have the right to do so since I'll be spending my $80k+ of money on it.

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