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A suicide crisis among veterinarians

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Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#311

Post by throwaway5752 »

gmarx wrote: post #221
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hoping someone will pay for a procedure to save their pet's life while being braced for "I guess we should put them down..." I'm sorry, but vet costs are completely out of whack with reality these days. The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. The story quoted $10k to remove…

That puppy example is special. In many cases (most?) the fact that a pet needs more than $10k it is likely too much to put the pet through. No way I would give a dog chemotherapy for cancer for example

That's not a reasonable thing to say. "Giving chemotherapy" is almost as general as saying "giving medicine". A young dog with a treatable cancer is not going to cost anything near $10k and should get many good years of life. Some cancers (eg, mast cell) have glorified Benadryl as "chemo".

Just put in the effort to find a good vet, build a relationship, and trust them give you good advice.

I'm not saying this to you, but this has been a terrible post on HN to read, the worst of the community is on display. Lots of confidently wrong people that are very quick to see the worst in others.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#312

Post by zargon »

Exuma wrote: post #274
Mezzie wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be there. I have had a cat die unexpectedly (heart failure) and she was in the car on the way to the vet when she died. She held on in the back seat until I was able to pull over and be with her. She was looking for me. You owe it to be there.

Ok I will definitely do it then. How long did it take to not feel just truly awful? Like I said... Ive never experienced that much grief/pain from loss before. I am scared how bad it will be, or what to expect.

When I lost my cat of 13 years, the first few weeks were terrible. Even just the feeling of emptiness in the house. And everything reminded me of her. For 6 months I could not talk about her without crying. But it's OK to feel this. I would rather feel it than not. It's a reflection of the wonderful companionship we had.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#313

Post by yakubin »

InSteady wrote: post #254
FrankoDelMar wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, well if someone can't swing $200 they probably shouldn't own a pet.

That's an extremely easy thing to say from a place of privilege, and of course there is some truth to it. On the other hand, how many chronically broke and miserable people out there are only hanging on for love of a pet (perhaps the only consistent source of love and meaning in their adult or entire lives)? I'll bet its a lot. But fuck them, they're poor so I guess they should either tough it out alone or die. Sorry…

I'd love to have a pet too, but I don't have the conditions for that (including financial conditions), so I don't. Even though I'd love to. But having a pet is responsibility, which includes financial responsibility. So yes, you shouldn't have a right to have a pet, when you can't afford it. That it may even be controversial is bewildering to me. Animals aren't things which exist for your pleasure.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#314

Post by PeterisP »

makeitdouble wrote: post #27
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hoping someone will pay for a procedure to save their pet's life while being braced for "I guess we should put them down..." I'm sorry, but vet costs are completely out of whack with reality these days. The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. The story quoted $10k to remove…

> The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. I'd argue not having the means to deal with emergency situations would make someone unfit to own a pet. I get that circumstances can change and costs increase, but I also feel too many people assume a pet doesn't cost much or isn't muc…

For pets, "means to deal with emergency situations" includes euthanasia if the procedures required for a cure are too expensive.

There doesn't exist a duty to spend unreasonably large quantities of resources on saving any particular animal's life, so not being able to afford that doesn't make someone unfit to own a pet. If a pet has cancer, it's okay to perform a complex surgery that could save it, but it's also okay to let it die.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#315

Post by swatcoder »

yakubin wrote: post #313
InSteady wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an extremely easy thing to say from a place of privilege, and of course there is some truth to it. On the other hand, how many chronically broke and miserable people out there are only hanging on for love of a pet (perhaps the only consistent source of love and meaning in their adult or entire lives)? I'll bet its a lot. But fuck them, they're poor so I guess they should either tough it out alone or die. Sorry…

I'd love to have a pet too, but I don't have the conditions for that (including financial conditions), so I don't. Even though I'd love to. But having a pet is responsibility, which includes financial responsibility. So yes, you shouldn't have a right to have a pet, when you can't afford it. That it may even be controversial is bewildering to me. Animals aren't things which exist for your pleasure.

Pets are companions who you steward because you're the name on the lease and the one with the bank account. Like all living things, they're usually healthy without intervention as long as their basic needs are met. If you can fulfill that stewardship 100% of the time for 5 or 10 or 20 years, but then can't pull things together in some exceptional case at the end, that's not a failing. That's just one of those sad things that happens in life.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#316

Post by CogitoCogito »

Exuma wrote: post #274
Mezzie wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be there. I have had a cat die unexpectedly (heart failure) and she was in the car on the way to the vet when she died. She held on in the back seat until I was able to pull over and be with her. She was looking for me. You owe it to be there.

Ok I will definitely do it then. How long did it take to not feel just truly awful? Like I said... Ive never experienced that much grief/pain from loss before. I am scared how bad it will be, or what to expect.

In my experience, the actual death brings a feeling of relief. This has been my experience for both dying pets and family members. It’s hard but it’s a part of life. It’s gonna be alright.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#317

Post by barkerja »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #16
Fomite wrote: post #4

I work in a veterinary school, and it's remarkable to see how worn down veterinarians are compared to my colleagues in "people medicine" (and my comparison group are infectious disease folks - they're not exactly a cheerful group). To be honest, at this point, between how hard it is to get into vet school, the debt load, and how you're signing up for crushing compassion fatigue your whole life, and a career of hoping…

> hoping someone will pay for a procedure to save their pet's life while being braced for "I guess we should put them down..." I'm sorry, but vet costs are completely out of whack with reality these days. The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. The story quoted $10k to remove…

Do you know how much it costs to maintain and operate an imagining (MRI, X-Ray, etc.) machine? Do you know how much it costs to maintain staff (doctors, techs, office assistants, etc.)

As someone that used to think the same way as you, and then got to see other side of the business (my wife is a Veterinarian who runs an urgent care facility) —— it’s easy to think the way you do without seeing the costs incurred on the other side.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#318

Post by rqtwteye »

maxwell wrote: post #139
rednerrus wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People spend too much time staring into their phones, consuming simple carbohydrates, and being sedentary. The world is better than it's ever been. We just don't take good care of ourselves.

What are you talking about? Peace in Europe is shattered. The former President of the United States has been indicted multiple times on dozens of felony charges. R&D on the killer bipedal robots + assassination drones + AI from your favorite sci-fi movies is nearing completion. Full Nineteen Eighty-Four -style surveillance totalitarianism has been rolled out in occupied China and is at the pilot stage in most western…

My parents and grandparents experienced life from the 1920s to 1950s in Europe. Things were much worse then and much crazier.

Not saying we shouldn’t improve or that we should go back to the “good old days”. But in western countries life has been pretty good the last 70 years compared to before. But my pessimistic/realistic side tells me that we will screw this up and either turn into some dystopia with a few rich people and many poor people or we will just start another world war.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#319

Post by zkelvin »

at_a_remove wrote: post #275
Arrath wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > "There's an idea that veterinarians work on the belief that it's right to euthanise a hopeless case," says Volk, "and we are seeing ourselves, emotionally, as hopeless cases." Fuck me that is dark.

The realization that to some pet, you're merely a fallible god, but one who can often offer little but death in an alien place, filled with the scent of sick, dying, and/or terrified other animals. Why am I here? Did I do something wrong? And your face is the last one they see. Run through that a thousand times per year and, unless you have monastic levels of detachment, you might end up feeling as if you were little…

This was beautifully written. Thank you.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#320

Post by zeku »

Exuma wrote: post #207
heyoni wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the worst things about society right now is we don’t share the burden amongst ourselves. The dirty work so to speak is delegated to specialists and our hands stay completely clean. I’m not saying pet owners should euthanize their animals but staying there in the room while the vet did their work probably helped, and the article mentions that owners leaving is part of the problem.

One of my favorite cats has a bad tumor and a 3 month expected life span. I found out a few days ago. I’m shattered and the thought of having to be in the room or not is just super depressing. I’ve never lost a pet before or even someone very close to me. I’m scared for how bad it’s going to hurt Part of me (most of me) wants to be there to feel the pain in the deepest way and not bitch out. To be there for the last…

Focus on how good of a life you've given your cat. Be there for it when it passes if you can.

My childhood dog had cancer and ended up having a seizure in my arms. Later I buried him myself.

Being there for him and burying him myself gave me a lot of closure and I'm proud I was able to be his friend and give him a good life.

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