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A suicide crisis among veterinarians

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Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#241

Post by Arrath »

candybar wrote: post #24

We can talk about other negative aspects of being a vet, but the primary factor is that they know how: > But that reality of the job can also colour the way veterinarians view human lives – including their own – and for those already experiencing suicidal ideation, it can provide a simple justification: death is preferable to suffering. In a 2021 survey by pharmaceutical company Merck, 12.5% of the veterinarians surv…

> > "There's an idea that veterinarians work on the belief that it's right to euthanise a hopeless case," says Volk, "and we are seeing ourselves, emotionally, as hopeless cases."

Fuck me that is dark.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#242

Post by fishyjoe »

rcarr wrote: post #211
fishyjoe wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> five down votes in the space of a minute How did you even notice this? Get off the computer, it's clearly not doing your mental health any favors. You seem very unhinged. Ranting at groups due to perceived persecution and calling them "fucking militant" is not decent behavior. > Do you think no-one told a joke at George Carlin's funeral? The comedian? Yeah he's a comedian, I would expect jokes to be told at his fun…

How is it unhinged to post something on an active discussion site and then to refresh the page a minute or two later to see if anyone has replied? That's called having a conversation, there's nothing unhinged about it. There are no notifications on this site, if you want to have a conversation with someone you either refresh the page or you subscribe to the RSS feed of your comments. All you're doing is trying to def…

I'm not hoping to frame you as anything. You posted the multi-paragraph comment calling people who like animals "fucking militants" all on your own before I showed up. Getting that upset/irrationally mad at a group over some downvotes is what I find concerning.

But yeah, apologies about the dig at you refreshing the page frequently. I'm having to do the same to check these messages.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#243

Post by tasuki »

Jka9rhnDJos wrote: post #202
Fomite wrote: post #4

I work in a veterinary school, and it's remarkable to see how worn down veterinarians are compared to my colleagues in "people medicine" (and my comparison group are infectious disease folks - they're not exactly a cheerful group). To be honest, at this point, between how hard it is to get into vet school, the debt load, and how you're signing up for crushing compassion fatigue your whole life, and a career of hoping…

My daughter wants more than anything to be a vet. Has talked about it for years. Reading more and more anecdotes and research about what it’s like being a veterinarian, I’m scared to continue encouraging her. We have a particularly medically-needy dog, and have spent $10k on procedures and vet visits over the past few years, and she’s really comfortable and familiar with being at the vet office. In my position, would…

> In my position, would you encourage your child to chase their dream? Or would you be comfortable telling them every few weeks until they gave up that you don’t think they should be a vet?

Can't you do both? Let her know about the serious downsides (perhaps don't "repeat every few weeks until she gives up") and if she chooses it anyway, encourage her. This is her decision to make, not yours. She will be responsible for the consequences, not you.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#244

Post by r3trohack3r »

FrankoDelMar wrote: post #145
pc86 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absolute amount of money is irrelevant, it matters what percentage of a person's disposable income it is. $10k is nothing if you making half a million dollars a year and have $200k in credit with no balance, because your disposable income is probably $400-450k/yr. $200 is a ruinous amount of money if you make minimum wage and take the bus to work because your disposable income is very likely negative.

Yeah, well if someone can't swing $200 they probably shouldn't own a pet.

> Yeah, well if someone can't swing $200 they probably shouldn't own a pet.

I'm not sure poor people not adopting pets would meaningfully change the rate at which pets are born. It just results in fewer pets being adopted.

Particularly true if shelters fix pets before putting them up for adoption.

Most animals that have been bred as pets over 1000s of years are no longer permitted to live without a human caretaker.

If they can't swing $200 for a life-saving procedure for a pet, I'd still advise them to adopt a pet to provide it a home for the window of time when the animal could happily live without any vet services.

A no-cost (or low-cost) adoption is often a life-saving procedure for an owner-less pet.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#245

Post by zargon »

latchkey wrote: post #209
zargon wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comparison is to a young healthy pet who reaches end of life, as pets tend to do. I did the math, including interest on self-insurance savings and deductibles and co-pays. In my circumstance, insurance would have saved me thousands of dollars. Of course, I might not have needed it. Or it might have saved me $20,000. It's risk management. Pay a medium amount to hedge against the possibly having to pay an exorbitant…

No $25/mo insurance is going to pay out $20k, they all have maximum caps. That's also 800 months of payments and your cat isn't going to live to 66 years old.

My insurance policy does not have any maximums. Your second sentence is nonsensical.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#246

Post by basisword »

vjk800 wrote: post #232
candybar wrote: post #24

We can talk about other negative aspects of being a vet, but the primary factor is that they know how: > But that reality of the job can also colour the way veterinarians view human lives – including their own – and for those already experiencing suicidal ideation, it can provide a simple justification: death is preferable to suffering. In a 2021 survey by pharmaceutical company Merck, 12.5% of the veterinarians surv…

> What often stops otherwise suicidal folks is that it's not an easy thing to do Is the take away from this that if all people knew how to kill themselves efficiently, the suicide rates in general population would be as high as they are among vets? It's pretty grim to think that the only thing that's stopping many people from killings themselves is that they don't know how...

I think it depends on how 'easy' it is. If it was as simple as pushing a button and you knew it was instant and painless I can imagine many times in my life I would have pressed that button - and I'm sure a lot of people might do it in moments of great distress, when thoughts of the future aren't there. I think the issue isn't the "know how" as you mentioned, it's more the difficulty and uncertainty (of pain and success). Working in a place that has the tools and you know how to use them reduces so many barriers to entry so to speak.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#247

Post by Arrath »

giantg2 wrote: post #174
heyoni wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the worst things about society right now is we don’t share the burden amongst ourselves. The dirty work so to speak is delegated to specialists and our hands stay completely clean. I’m not saying pet owners should euthanize their animals but staying there in the room while the vet did their work probably helped, and the article mentions that owners leaving is part of the problem.

I think there are still a number if people who would euthanize their own animals. But to your point, it seems a large part of society has completely detected from the realities of life. How many know what it takes to grow/process food, or butcher an animal for meat, etc? No, that just comes in a package at the store...

> I think there are still a number if people who would euthanize their own animals.

I would lean towards agreeing with you. Anecdotes aren't data etc etc but my uncle couldn't bring himself to take his dog into a sterile and impersonal vet's office when it was his dog's time, nor could he bring himself to doing the deed himself, so he and my dad worked together to do it. For a stoic old logger, army mechanic, and construction worker, it broke him for a while.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#248

Post by jnwatson »

Fomite wrote: post #4

I work in a veterinary school, and it's remarkable to see how worn down veterinarians are compared to my colleagues in "people medicine" (and my comparison group are infectious disease folks - they're not exactly a cheerful group). To be honest, at this point, between how hard it is to get into vet school, the debt load, and how you're signing up for crushing compassion fatigue your whole life, and a career of hoping…

I really don't understand why anyone would become a vet. I love animals as much as the next person, which is why i don't understand why one would volunteer for this life.

When having the cat put down, my first thought was for the cat and my personal sadness. My second thought was, wait, you folks do this for a living?

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#249

Post by jnwatson »

Mezzie wrote: post #90
DangitBobby wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. Any time we have a routine visit, e.g. shots and a checkup, it costs us about $300. I can't remember a single vet visit we had that was less than $100, and we haven't had an emergency visit in years. I have no idea how most people afford it, I assume they just don't take their pets to the vet.

Vet costs vary wildly across different regions. I just took my cat in for an emergency (little idiot ate plastic and we had to see if she had a block in her when she was continuing to vomit blood) and got her examined, a shot of anti-nausea medication, imaging of her gi tract, and some bland food to take home (which had to be special as she's allergic to chicken protein) for $215. I thought that was pretty damn reaso…

Private equity is taking over vet clinics. In areas where they have the market locked, they raise prices

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#250

Post by latchkey »

zargon wrote: post #245
latchkey wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No $25/mo insurance is going to pay out $20k, they all have maximum caps. That's also 800 months of payments and your cat isn't going to live to 66 years old.

My insurance policy does not have any maximums. Your second sentence is nonsensical.

Which insurance is it?

  20000/25=800
  800/12=66
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