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Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

theguardian.com

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Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#181

Post by CalRobert »

philistine wrote: post #164
yourusername wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you go by number of trips and then even if you limit yourself to just trips 3.7 to 7.5 km cars are still are 50% more common than bikes. https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/figures/detail/84708ENG

That is absolutely great. A third of all short trips in the Netherlands are biked. To this North American, this is mental. What a great stat, that I trust the country to make even more impressive.

Take a trip to Utrecht and you'll feel like you've died and gone to heaven. Or Houten (right next to Utrecht) which is one of the best designed suburbs in the world

25% walking 48% biking 5% public transport 18% car

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share

or

https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2020/14/modal-split-2018-gem...

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/may/16/welcome-cycle...

And the thing is - Utrecht is amazing. I don't think people there are bemoaning their sad existence lacking in freedom or mobility. But part of the success of Utrecht and Houten is taking space away from cars and giving it to bikes (and walking and public transport). I'm struggling to find a source but recently Utrecht determined that a street had too much traffic and was clogged with cars so the solution was that obviously it needed more throughput - so it should be made in to a bike route.

I just wish I hadn't needed to move 8,000 km to have this level of freedom.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#182

Post by mywittyname »

hunter2_ wrote: post #109
cheema33 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs don't use brakes as much as ICE vehicles because of automatic regenerative braking. This converts your forward momentum back into electricity. ICE vehicles use engine braking or brake pads. Both of those are much worse in more ways than one. You might want to cross that off your list of things to complain about when talking about EVs.

The instant torque does blow through tires though. Maybe twice as fast as a typical ICE vehicle? The acceleration on a Tesla is like very, very premium ICE cars that few people have (>300HP). This could easily be tuned out, but that would cripple the thrill, i.e., bad for sales.

Powerful ICE cars have this same problem. One of my cars is turbocharged and has a torque spike at 2500 RPMs that with shred the tires even in higher gears if the throttle pedal is to the floor when the engine crosses over that rev band. And my other one has a V8 that will squeal the tires anytime I am remotely aggressive with the throttle.

Car companies can tune the EVs to damp torque spikes, but there's no way around the fundamental fact that hard acceleration uses up tires. EVs accelerate hard, but they don't have to. That just happens to be a major selling point for most of them.

AWD works in their favor here though, since it's distributing the torque across four wheels, and traction control on EVs can be incredibly effective.

I'd be surprised if people in Model 3 Performances went through tires at nearly the rate that I do in similarly powerful ICE cars (~8-10k for driven wheels).

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#184

Post by InitialLastName »

yourusername wrote: post #136
InitialLastName wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how I interpret that chart. The title says "Travel Distance per person day by main travel mode for urban mobility on all days". That is ambiguous, but suggests that the numbers are actually the share of the travel distance for peoples' main mode, meaning that people who need to travel further in a day tend to have cars, to an overwhelming extent. That is still a coherent situation in a world where most peo…

Even if you go by number of trips and then even if you limit yourself to just trips 3.7 to 7.5 km cars are still are 50% more common than bikes. https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/figures/detail/84708ENG

I'll bet that skews even further for trips under 3.7 km (which is still usually a car trip for many, if not most, in the US).

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#185

Post by hashmush »

amiga386 wrote: post #170
boxed wrote: post #6

It's a tiny part of the center of Stockholm. https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/stockholm/bensin-och-diese... has a map. Roughly 4x4 blocks.

Oh thank goodness for that. Can you imagine if they were going to block Centralbron? Question: does this mean NK are going to have to move their flagship shop if they want any customers in future?

Do people really go to NK by car?!

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#186

Post by thisgoesnowhere »

eptcyka wrote: post #127
supriyo-biswas wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe some sort of distance-dependent taxation on cars may be a more viable option, so that people can enjoy private commutes when they absolutely need it, while still pushing people towards public transport.

This is what toll roads do, kind of.

Tolls are very underrated imo but the issue is that of you do tolls without the other infrastructure it's basically just a tax on the poor.

You need to offer other methods to get around first then add them.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#187

Post by giardini »

CalRobert wrote: post #20

It's small, but it's a start. Next, remove as many cars as possible (some deliveries, taxis, and emergency vehicles make sense, as well as microcars for people who need them, of course). I'm appalled at the people here saying you need a car to lead a full life. A car-dependent life is an empty and sad one for many of us. I moved to the Netherlands with my family (two young daughters) and it has been _absolutely fanta…

"26% of The Netherlands is below sea level, and 59% of The Netherlands is vulnerable to flooding by the sea in case of high tide and severe storms." from:

"How Much Of The Netherlands Is Below Sea Level?"

https://netherlandsinsiders.com/how-much-of-the-netherlands-...

If I were less risk-averse I'd live there too. But flooding is "Nature's way of telling" me to move.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#188

Post by hashmush »

edpichler wrote: post #160
ecmascript wrote: post #36

As a Swede born and raised in Stockholm but no longer live there I wonder if delivery trucks and people working (carpenters etc) will be excempt from these rules? This is a serious question because the changes comes (mainly) from a radical left wing political party that had deliveries on the subway as a serious solution to banning car traffic. Personally I don't really care since I don't live in Stockholm anymore but…

I agree with you. It is an emotional decision. Politics is all about emotionalism. Now everybody that like or work there will need to have buy a te$la or pole$tar.

I live quite far from Stockholm and commute there by train. My office is just outside of the zone.

Most people I know at work own a car, but no one drives to work. Why would they?

Seems like people driving in downtown Stockholm are the kind of people that can afford EVs anyway. (Of course, disabled people etc. But they are also covered by the new rules.)

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#189

Post by southernplaces7 »

CalRobert wrote: post #20

It's small, but it's a start. Next, remove as many cars as possible (some deliveries, taxis, and emergency vehicles make sense, as well as microcars for people who need them, of course). I'm appalled at the people here saying you need a car to lead a full life. A car-dependent life is an empty and sad one for many of us. I moved to the Netherlands with my family (two young daughters) and it has been _absolutely fanta…

[flagged]

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#190

Post by adammarples »

giardini wrote: post #187
CalRobert wrote: post #20

It's small, but it's a start. Next, remove as many cars as possible (some deliveries, taxis, and emergency vehicles make sense, as well as microcars for people who need them, of course). I'm appalled at the people here saying you need a car to lead a full life. A car-dependent life is an empty and sad one for many of us. I moved to the Netherlands with my family (two young daughters) and it has been _absolutely fanta…

"26% of The Netherlands is below sea level, and 59% of The Netherlands is vulnerable to flooding by the sea in case of high tide and severe storms." from: "How Much Of The Netherlands Is Below Sea Level?" https://netherlandsinsiders.com/how-much-of-the-netherlands-... If I were less risk-averse I'd live there too. But flooding is "Nature's way of telling" me to move.

May I hazard a guess that you love somewhere on the San Andreas fault?
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