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Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

theguardian.com

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Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#131

Post by qwytw »

bearjaws wrote: post #93
qwytw wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs are not the solution for that, brake and tire wear contribute to as much or more PM2.5 and 2-3 times more PM10 pollution than modern ICEs . Also while there will be some improvement it will be possibly partially outweighed by the fact the EVs generally weight more. Of course we can just ignore that which is not at all crazy... Edit: I'm certainly not using this as argument to not ban ICE vehicles in city centers.…

This is a common misinformation campaign against EVs. First of all, EVs use far less brake material than gas cars. E.g. Most Teslas run the same pads for 100k+ miles due to strong regenerative braking, for me it was triple the longevity of brake pads on my Audi. As for the tire emissions, you are likely quoting the worst case scenario that was devised by emissionsanalytics. The reality is, that was a worst case scena…

> So how is it possible the tires are losing significantly more tread (and as a consequence, polluting more) but also lasting a long time?

Sorry, I probably phrased it in a confusing way, I was comparing the ratio between tire/brake and ICE PM 2.5 emissions for normal cars not saying that EVs are that much worse (the part about weight is just speculation).

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#132

Post by codedokode »

dingnuts wrote: post #116
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~50% of Americans are sedentary and obese. They're obviously going to want cars. Walking & cycling are not options (see sedentary).

There are also disabled and elderly people. Try walking and cycling to get your groceries with multiple sclerosis or a couple bad hips. Cars are awesome.

What if you live in US but your health doesn't allow you to drive a car?

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#133

Post by robertlagrant »

hef19898 wrote: post #115
robertlagrant wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about unaccompanied kids?

Of course, that was the topic we discussed right?

It is. I'm in Oxford, UK, where there's lots of public transport, but I've never seen a 6-year-old on a bus solo.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#134

Post by hef19898 »

robertlagrant wrote: post #133
hef19898 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, that was the topic we discussed right?

It is. I'm in Oxford, UK, where there's lots of public transport, but I've never seen a 6-year-old on a bus solo.

Next time you are in Munich, take public transport of any kind between 7 and 7:30 in the morning on a normal school day, there are sometimes morw school kids of all ages in a given subway car than adults. Pretty funny to witness, seeing the little ones behaving like all the adult commuters, head phones and all until they meet their friends.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#135

Post by nerdjon »

dingnuts wrote: post #116
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~50% of Americans are sedentary and obese. They're obviously going to want cars. Walking & cycling are not options (see sedentary).

There are also disabled and elderly people. Try walking and cycling to get your groceries with multiple sclerosis or a couple bad hips. Cars are awesome.

That is where exceptions come into play. Yes people with disabilities (which could include elderly people) will need a different form of transportation.

But exceptions to allow those that need it to drive or other services (like grocery delivery) can take care of that while still allowing for a pedestrian focused city.

There is also the fact that if a city is properly designed ideally you may only need to walk a couple blocks for groceries and your basic needs, and instead of doing big shopping you buy just a few things at a time.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#136

Post by yourusername »

InitialLastName wrote: post #113
wwtrv wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet the overwhelming majority of people in the Netherlands still uses cars as their primary method of transport: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... of course if you moved there from the USA (which I assume you did?) the car situation there is not that much better than other European countries.

That's not how I interpret that chart. The title says "Travel Distance per person day by main travel mode for urban mobility on all days". That is ambiguous, but suggests that the numbers are actually the share of the travel distance for peoples' main mode, meaning that people who need to travel further in a day tend to have cars, to an overwhelming extent. That is still a coherent situation in a world where most peo…

Even if you go by number of trips and then even if you limit yourself to just trips 3.7 to 7.5 km cars are still are 50% more common than bikes.

https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/figures/detail/84708ENG

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#137

Post by jokethrowaway »

CalRobert wrote: post #20

It's small, but it's a start. Next, remove as many cars as possible (some deliveries, taxis, and emergency vehicles make sense, as well as microcars for people who need them, of course). I'm appalled at the people here saying you need a car to lead a full life. A car-dependent life is an empty and sad one for many of us. I moved to the Netherlands with my family (two young daughters) and it has been _absolutely fanta…

I was happy not to have to drive when living in London but because my comparison was with places with terrible traffic.

Now that I moved away to a place with better quality of life, and little to no traffic having a car is great.

I can go wherever I want whenever I want.

No doubt it's a symbol for freedom for many.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#138

Post by Fyrezerk »

pera wrote: post #21

I think it's absolutely crazy that our society is OK with car drivers polluting the air with carcinogenic particles. I hope more cities around the world implement similar bans soon.

Do you not realize how much of modern society relies on cars and trucks as a mode of transport? It's asinine to think you can just get rid of them in most parts of the world and continue life as usual.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#139

Post by rsynnott »

paganel wrote: post #3
teddyh wrote: post #2

Another article in English: https://www.thelocal.se/20231010/stockholm-to-ban-petrol-and... > Maps here: https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/stockholm/bensin-och-diese... > and here: https://www.dn.se/sverige/bensin-och-dieselbilar-forbjuds-i-... >. Note that the area is comparatively tiny ; 180 000m² according to some articles, closer to 200 000m² according to my measurements – but in any case smaller than 50 acres. O…

I see they went with the "think of the children": > The study found that children who grow up on roads in the capital with particularly high emissions have worse-than-average lung capacity when compared to other children, from as early as six months old. This will only accelerate the move to the suburbs of the families having children themselves and who can't yet afford an EV, leaving the cities themselves (as I susp…

> not-interested in having a full Western-life experience (which necessitates having a car)

Wait, what's this "Western-life experience" I'm missing out on by not having a car? Having lived in Western Europe all my life, I seem to have missed the memo about this.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#140

Post by robertlagrant »

hef19898 wrote: post #134
robertlagrant wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. I'm in Oxford, UK, where there's lots of public transport, but I've never seen a 6-year-old on a bus solo.

Next time you are in Munich, take public transport of any kind between 7 and 7:30 in the morning on a normal school day, there are sometimes morw school kids of all ages in a given subway car than adults. Pretty funny to witness, seeing the little ones behaving like all the adult commuters, head phones and all until they meet their friends.

I can understand "of all ages" rather more, e.g. a teenager and two younger kids all going to the same place. Not young kids riding solo.
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