Why is Debian the way it is?

Post by samueloph » Sun, Oct 08, 2023, 6:22 PM UTC

tarruda wrote: post #45

larme wrote: post #35

Sometimes I daydream about getting a fuck-it amount of money. During this thought process I always make a plan of what open source software project I should donate, and debian is always one of the first several candidates. Now I just need the money! (meanwhile I donate to debian anyway)

This article from 2020 says Debian doesn't need money: https://www.theregister.com/2020/09/10/debian_project_addres...

Post by natebc » Sun, Oct 08, 2023, 6:28 PM UTC

bostik wrote: post #53

dietrichepp wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I keep coming back to Debian after trying out another distro for a while. There are some specific complaints I have about technical choices for Debian, like the way daemons autostart post install. But these complaints are outweighed by the benefits of using a distro with coherence across packages and upgrades. Apt is also just such a phenomenal package manager. It is fast out of the box, and supports some relat…

I'm a Debian user since 1998 and have had it as my personal desktop since that time. I'd think that counts for something. > Apt is also just such a phenomenal package manager. It is fast out of the box, This wasn't always the case. There's a good reason almost all guides first written before 2015 specifically instructed everyone to use 'apt-get' directly. For quite some time the more uniform 'apt' frontend really was…

     SCRIPT USAGE AND DIFFERENCES FROM OTHER APT TOOLS
       The apt(8) commandline is designed as an end-user tool and it may change behavior between versions. While it tries not to break backward compatibility this is not guaranteed
       either if a change seems beneficial for interactive use.

       All features of apt(8) are available in dedicated APT tools like apt-get(8) and apt-cache(8) as well.  apt(8) just changes the default value of some options (see apt.conf(5) and
       specifically the Binary scope). So you should prefer using these commands (potentially with some additional options enabled) in your scripts as they keep backward compatibility
       as much as possible.

Post by SoftTalker » Sun, Oct 08, 2023, 6:32 PM UTC

Aeolos wrote: post #79

SoftTalker wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you looked at OpenBSD? Here's the /etc/rc.d/sshd: #!/bin/ksh # # $OpenBSD: sshd,v 1.7 2022/08/29 19:14:25 ajacoutot Exp $ daemon="/usr/sbin/sshd" . /etc/rc.d/rc.subr pexp="sshd: ${daemon}${daemon_flags:+ ${daemon_flags}} \[listener\].*" rc_configtest() { ${daemon} ${daemon_flags} -t } rc_cmd $1 Pretty much any service/daemon is similar. You define a few things and you're done.

Here is the systemd unit for comparison: [Unit] Description=OpenBSD Secure Shell server per-connection daemon After=auditd.service [Service] EnvironmentFile=/etc/default/ssh ExecStart=/usr/sbin/sshd -i $SSHD_OPTS StandardInput=socket I leave it to the reader to decide which of those two is easier to understand and maintain.

Post by convolvatron » Sun, Oct 08, 2023, 6:32 PM UTC

talkingtab wrote: post #69

zajio1am wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just as interesting is what happened when the corporate world decided to compete with the IETF for control of how the internet worked. Some people call this the protocol wars. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_Wars ). For a while it seemed like each month the OSI would announce a project to replace parts of the internet, like TCP, with an X.protocol. Of these efforts very few survived and thrived - like X.50…

You are correct. A better way to put it. And it is true that the IETF working groups are often from corporate vendors. So perhaps that part of my argument is completely wrong. And distracts from the main question: could other fundamental models of collaboration be significantly more productive (efficient) than corporate models?

Post by abdullahkhalids » Sun, Oct 08, 2023, 6:48 PM UTC

dsr_ wrote: post #4

LIW left out one major chunk: because Debian is a volunteer organization, and nobody can make a volunteer do anything that they don't want to do.