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Why is Debian the way it is?

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Re: Why is Debian the way it is?

#11
I worked with Ian Murdock at Purdue in the days of the very first release. He was a sysadmin and devloper while I was a web designer for the libraries.

The guy truly believed in the GNU/Linux 'way' and 'free as in speech' software. His initial drive was from the difficulty of packaging and package management and that is probably his biggest contribution. Network-of-Workstations (NOW... think peer-to-peer infratsructure) was his passion that he really never quite got going.

Bruce Perens, the guy he handed control over to, is the authoritarian leader being refered to. I like the guy. He's definitely in the old guard, aka Linus Torvalds, style of management. In big complex projects with volunteers that syle works.

Anyways, the old days of Linux and Debian were a blast. I never quite go tinto like all these other people, but I miss those old days.

There's way too much money people involved today. So it goes.

Ian's manifesto explains it all, anyways.

https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/project-history/manifesto...

Re: Why is Debian the way it is?

#12
post #5
post #3

Well certainly part of it is much of the .deb ecosystem still feels like its stuck in the late 90s linux era to me. But maybe I'm alone on that gut feel.

"stuck in the late 90s" in what sense? Building them? Distributing them? (Dependencies?)

[deleted]

Re: Why is Debian the way it is?

#13
Several open source software organizations are remarkable. Not little remarkable, big remarkable. As in they show us how alternative models to the typical corporate business model may well be far superior as a way for people to collaborate. For the most part these remarkable are unknown. I have used Debian for (ahem) a very long time without knowing much about the organization and this article was a very good introduction.

I have been aware of the IETF for quite a while. What is most amazing is that the internet today was built (more-or-less) by the IETF. See The Tao of IETF (https://www.ietf.org/about/participate/tao/). This is an organization with no members. It just works. Hardly anyone really knows about it.

Just as interesting is what happened when the corporate world decided to compete with the IETF for control of how the internet worked. Some people call this the protocol wars. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_Wars). For a while it seemed like each month the OSI would announce a project to replace parts of the internet, like TCP, with an X.protocol. Of these efforts very few survived and thrived - like X.509.

The question that comes to my mind is whether these kind of democratic type collaborative organizations are in fact superior (far superior?) to the traditional corporate model. I personally have watched many corporations act with obvious stupidity. Doing things that can only be described as severely fight-their-way-out-of-a-paper-bag challenged. To put it kindly.

Certainly these other-style organizations do not really stack up on an economic basis. The income of most corporations dwarfs that of both the IETF and Debian. And yet as a contributor and creator, I can ask Cuo Bono? Certainly not the contributors, they subsist.

And perhaps most interesting to me, and perhaps worth an experiment, is whether it is possible to use an IETF or Debian style model that competes with the corporate model. It did work once with the Protocol Wars, so maybe.

(edit to remove markdown syntax, sigh)

Re: Why is Debian the way it is?

#15

I worked with Ian Murdock at Purdue in the days of the very first release. He was a sysadmin and devloper while I was a web designer for the libraries. The guy truly believed in the GNU/Linux 'way' and 'free as in speech' software. His initial drive was from the difficulty of packaging and package management and that is probably his biggest contribution. Network-of-Workstations (NOW... think peer-to-peer infratsructu…

Thank you for sharing this, it all rings so true. Love Debian and still use it.

Re: Why is Debian the way it is?

#16

Several open source software organizations are remarkable. Not little remarkable, big remarkable. As in they show us how alternative models to the typical corporate business model may well be far superior as a way for people to collaborate. For the most part these remarkable are unknown. I have used Debian for (ahem) a very long time without knowing much about the organization and this article was a very good introdu…

> Just as interesting is what happened when the corporate world decided to compete with the IETF for control of how the internet worked. Some people call this the protocol wars. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_Wars). For a while it seemed like each month the OSI would announce a project to replace parts of the internet, like TCP, with an X.protocol. Of these efforts very few survived and thrived - like X.509.

I would not describe it as 'corporate world decided to compete with IETF', than 'governments tried to enforce its power'. IETF working groups are often full of engineers from corporate vendors trying to collaborate to ensure interoperability, while ISO is traditional top-down governments-led organization.

Re: Why is Debian the way it is?

#18
post #5
post #3

Well certainly part of it is much of the .deb ecosystem still feels like its stuck in the late 90s linux era to me. But maybe I'm alone on that gut feel.

"stuck in the late 90s" in what sense? Building them? Distributing them? (Dependencies?)

That they work reliably?
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