Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

space.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 101 posts

Re: The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

#41

Post by jeremyjh »

flashback2199 wrote: post #35
standardUser wrote: post #15

The Montreal Protocol has been a massive success and was even strongly supported by Reagan (possibly due to his own skin cancer scare, according to one article). Though I'm highly skeptical it could make it through today's political system in the US.

Nah I think it could pass today. What set it apart was there was an equivalent cost chemical to switch to. It would be kind of like if there were a different liquid hydrocarbon than gasoline that cost the same, doesn't emit CO2, and only took minor tweaks to the engine design to switch to.

Yet I see the “do your own research!” crowd now reference the ozone hole as another example when a cabal of evil scientists came up with a cash grab that the mainstream media terrified everyone with for no reason, and “now no one even talks about it!”.

Re: The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

#42

Post by swader999 »

kingdomcome50 wrote: post #19
Alupis wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of ridiculous, silly rhetoric needs to end. It's not just unproductive, it's counter-productive. "ThE wOrLd Is EnDiNg!" is such a tired line, used by religious fanatics since the beginning of time. Modern-day climate activism has indeed become it's own sort of religion, complete with the same sort of doom-and-gloom "repent now before it's too late" rhetoric and increasingly not based on facts or science but…

Totally agree. The world is the best it has ever been by nearly any metric. My father had to _literally_ practice hiding under his desk at school with a Geiger counter in preparation for nuclear war. He was then _drafted_ into Vietnam... I don't think I have it so bad.

And yet there's a proxy, some would even call it a direct war between Russia and NATO that has some non zero probability of going nuclear.

Re: The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

#43

Post by sofixa »

ToDougie wrote: post #36
postmodest wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are over, say, 25, then you know that the last 10 years have been _exceptional_ years for our climate, and that the time for normal non-sensational warnings was 40 years ago or 50 years ago. Look at a graph of CO2 emissions and you realize that we are in a place where what was alarming in the 80's was the result of only _half_ of the CO2 pumped into the atmosphere since 1900 ( https://ourworldindata.org/co2-em…

The climate over the last 10 years haven't felt or been exceptional. The news has certainly been sensational.

Are you kidding? How many temperature records were broken? How many "once in a 100 years events" happened? Texas had two such winter storms in less than 10 years. There have been record droughts in France, and then record rainfalls. An unprecedented heat dome in the Pacific Northwest. Vast areas in the Middle East and South Asia, and hell the US too, are approaching unliveable wet bulbs temperatures in the summer.

If that isn't exceptional to you, what would be?

Re: The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

#44

Post by hutzlibu »

postmodest wrote: post #27
Alupis wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of ridiculous, silly rhetoric needs to end. It's not just unproductive, it's counter-productive. "ThE wOrLd Is EnDiNg!" is such a tired line, used by religious fanatics since the beginning of time. Modern-day climate activism has indeed become it's own sort of religion, complete with the same sort of doom-and-gloom "repent now before it's too late" rhetoric and increasingly not based on facts or science but…

If you are over, say, 25, then you know that the last 10 years have been _exceptional_ years for our climate, and that the time for normal non-sensational warnings was 40 years ago or 50 years ago. Look at a graph of CO2 emissions and you realize that we are in a place where what was alarming in the 80's was the result of only _half_ of the CO2 pumped into the atmosphere since 1900 ( https://ourworldindata.org/co2-em…

"The problem is that people haven't been taking the danger seriously and now it's an immanent and deadly danger."

Taking something serious, is something very different from a doomsday cult.

Re: The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

#45

Post by HWR_14 »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #22
diggan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't the US also be bigger because of the 10 states most to the east or whatever? Why specifically Alaska?

In addition to other reasons, Alaska was accepted as a state either last or second-last -- I remember in the same year as Hawaii but I don't know if one was officially accepted before the other. I suspect that history would cause people in older generations to think of Alaska when there's a state to arbitrarily drop from some calculation and younger generations would mimic that tendency.

Alaska has been part of the US since just after the Civil War. It wasn't a state, but it was a recognized part of the US.

Re: The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

#46

Post by alex_lav »

Alupis wrote: post #8
doublerabbit wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if we can survive the next thirty years, we're good. I can barely look forward to the next five. Edit: Woah. Humor doesn't translate well on this site doesn't it? I'm not saying the world is ending. I'm just saying with the next five years it looks bloody bleak, at least for me, turning 40 doesn't look fun. With wars, environmental mess going on; the world looks very dystopian to the vision where it could be utopi…

This sort of ridiculous, silly rhetoric needs to end. It's not just unproductive, it's counter-productive. "ThE wOrLd Is EnDiNg!" is such a tired line, used by religious fanatics since the beginning of time. Modern-day climate activism has indeed become it's own sort of religion, complete with the same sort of doom-and-gloom "repent now before it's too late" rhetoric and increasingly not based on facts or science but…

> No.. the world isn't ending tomorrow, within 5 years, or even in the next few decades.

Ah yes, not ending “in the next few decades.” What a reassurance.

Re: The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

#47

Post by flashback2199 »

jeremyjh wrote: post #41
flashback2199 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah I think it could pass today. What set it apart was there was an equivalent cost chemical to switch to. It would be kind of like if there were a different liquid hydrocarbon than gasoline that cost the same, doesn't emit CO2, and only took minor tweaks to the engine design to switch to.

Yet I see the “do your own research!” crowd now reference the ozone hole as another example when a cabal of evil scientists came up with a cash grab that the mainstream media terrified everyone with for no reason, and “now no one even talks about it!”.

Yeah, there are a lot of crazies, but there are also a lot of vacation property owners, tennis players, golfers, etc. and saying, truthfully, that no one will be able to do anything outside again, even with sunscreen, nobody will come rent your properties in Florida to go to the beach again, and the solution doesn't cost anything, it should pass.

Re: The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

#48

Post by S201 »

6DM wrote: post #4
megamike wrote: post #3

It's one of the biggest ozone holes on record — but not necessarily cause for alarm. right nothing to look at here just carry on

Lower in the article explains why: > Yet despite experiencing large seasonal growth this year, the ozone hole is still decreasing in size overall. "Based on the Montreal Protocol and the decrease of anthropogenic ozone-depleting substances, scientists currently predict that the global ozone layer will reach its normal state again by around 2050," said Claus Zehner, ESA's mission manager for Copernicus Sentinel-5P.

So in other words, more clickbait doomer-ism titles. It's disappointing to see this type of junk "journalism" be submitted to, and upvoted on, HN.

Re: The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

#49

Post by latchkey »

standardUser wrote: post #15

The Montreal Protocol has been a massive success and was even strongly supported by Reagan (possibly due to his own skin cancer scare, according to one article). Though I'm highly skeptical it could make it through today's political system in the US.

Was it?

"Two additional regions of Asia were sources of banned ozone-destroying chemicals"

https://research.noaa.gov/2022/03/09/two-additional-regions-...

Re: The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

#50

Post by hutzlibu »

kingdomcome50 wrote: post #19
Alupis wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of ridiculous, silly rhetoric needs to end. It's not just unproductive, it's counter-productive. "ThE wOrLd Is EnDiNg!" is such a tired line, used by religious fanatics since the beginning of time. Modern-day climate activism has indeed become it's own sort of religion, complete with the same sort of doom-and-gloom "repent now before it's too late" rhetoric and increasingly not based on facts or science but…

Totally agree. The world is the best it has ever been by nearly any metric. My father had to _literally_ practice hiding under his desk at school with a Geiger counter in preparation for nuclear war. He was then _drafted_ into Vietnam... I don't think I have it so bad.

"The world is the best it has ever been by nearly any metric."

How about fertility of the soil, area of land covered by desert vs forest, number of insects and in general diversity of wildlife, amount of fossil fuels burned every minute, amount of opioids intake, anti depression drugs consumption, number of days you have to wait to see a special doctor, inflation rate, ...

So good to hear, that you are currently doing well. And we surely could be worse off and many things certainly did improve. But give it some more geopolitical escalation and you getting drafted as well in the neae future remains a very real possibility.

Post reply on HN