Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

space.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 101 posts

Re: The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

#31

Post by cycomanic »

Alupis wrote: post #23
jplusequalt wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but people have been ringing the bells about climate change for 40 years. When will we actually do something about it? I think the increased sensationalism is, at the very least, a sign that people are becoming afraid about our lack of action.

This is false dichotomy. We are doing things about it - but those things take time to mature and become ready. The Zealots just cannot fathom things not being good enough to act catastrophically right now . We simply are not ready yet to ditch fossil fuels and go full-electric - among other things. There will be a day, yes, and that day might be within our lifetimes (hopefully), but forcing it right now when it's cle…

You are saying we are getting there, but don't give evidence that the pace of change is fast enough. Instead you call everyone who says the pace isn't fast enough (which includes most of the scientists working on climate change btw) "sensationalists" and "zealots".

Do you have any evidence that the current pace of change is sufficient to avert the most damaging aspects of climate change?

Re: The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

#32

Post by jplusequalt »

Alupis wrote: post #23
jplusequalt wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but people have been ringing the bells about climate change for 40 years. When will we actually do something about it? I think the increased sensationalism is, at the very least, a sign that people are becoming afraid about our lack of action.

This is false dichotomy. We are doing things about it - but those things take time to mature and become ready. The Zealots just cannot fathom things not being good enough to act catastrophically right now . We simply are not ready yet to ditch fossil fuels and go full-electric - among other things. There will be a day, yes, and that day might be within our lifetimes (hopefully), but forcing it right now when it's cle…

I strongly disagree that we are doing something about it. We are doing the bare minimum, if that. Until we start heavily regulating corporations on their carbon impact and taxing further carbon from being extracted from the ground, we aren't truly doing something about climate change.

Re: The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

#34

Post by borbulon »

diggan wrote: post #10
neves wrote: post #6

If you don't know: Brazil is bigger than mainland USA. USA is bigger due to Alaska.

Couldn't the US also be bigger because of the 10 states most to the east or whatever? Why specifically Alaska?

Because it's the largest state by far, so it's easier to do the math on. The next 3 biggest states put together don't add up to the size of Alaska. Alaska's land dedicated to national parks alone is bigger than the entire size of the land in each of the 23 of the 49 remaining states.

Re: The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

#35

Post by flashback2199 »

standardUser wrote: post #15

The Montreal Protocol has been a massive success and was even strongly supported by Reagan (possibly due to his own skin cancer scare, according to one article). Though I'm highly skeptical it could make it through today's political system in the US.

Nah I think it could pass today. What set it apart was there was an equivalent cost chemical to switch to. It would be kind of like if there were a different liquid hydrocarbon than gasoline that cost the same, doesn't emit CO2, and only took minor tweaks to the engine design to switch to.

Re: The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

#36

Post by ToDougie »

postmodest wrote: post #27
Alupis wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of ridiculous, silly rhetoric needs to end. It's not just unproductive, it's counter-productive. "ThE wOrLd Is EnDiNg!" is such a tired line, used by religious fanatics since the beginning of time. Modern-day climate activism has indeed become it's own sort of religion, complete with the same sort of doom-and-gloom "repent now before it's too late" rhetoric and increasingly not based on facts or science but…

If you are over, say, 25, then you know that the last 10 years have been _exceptional_ years for our climate, and that the time for normal non-sensational warnings was 40 years ago or 50 years ago. Look at a graph of CO2 emissions and you realize that we are in a place where what was alarming in the 80's was the result of only _half_ of the CO2 pumped into the atmosphere since 1900 ( https://ourworldindata.org/co2-em…

The climate over the last 10 years haven't felt or been exceptional. The news has certainly been sensational.

Re: The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

#37

Post by maybelsyrup »

Alupis wrote: post #26
maybelsyrup wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We just don't need the sensationalism - it turns people off and away from all the silliness. By contrast, this is the exact sort of haughty condescension that pushes people further away, often right into the hands of real extremists. The sensationalism is there because the problems of our ecology are literally sensational. Dismissing that is the real turnoff here.

> literally sensational The zealots pushing the sensationalism often don't comprehend the forces at play - both natural and human-made. It's just religious fervor regurgitated because they passed some sort of faith purity test and were rewarded by other zealots with internet points. There's conflicting motives here - one that says the California coastline should always remain exactly how we enjoy it today, and one th…

> The zealots pushing the sensationalism often don't comprehend the forces at play - both natural and human-made

This is the exact sort of haughty condescension that pushes people further away, often right into the hands of real extremists.

Re: The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

#38

Post by cassepipe »

Alupis wrote: post #26
maybelsyrup wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We just don't need the sensationalism - it turns people off and away from all the silliness. By contrast, this is the exact sort of haughty condescension that pushes people further away, often right into the hands of real extremists. The sensationalism is there because the problems of our ecology are literally sensational. Dismissing that is the real turnoff here.

> literally sensational The zealots pushing the sensationalism often don't comprehend the forces at play - both natural and human-made. It's just religious fervor regurgitated because they passed some sort of faith purity test and were rewarded by other zealots with internet points. There's conflicting motives here - one that says the California coastline should always remain exactly how we enjoy it today, and one th…

This is a straw man argument : Those who don't agree with me must be ignorant religious fanatics, surely not people who have been listening to what scientists working on the subject have been saying for more that 30 years.

Nobody really believes the worlds is going to disappear under big wave, it's of course a shorthand for "I have strong reasons to believe that my living conditions will degrade terribly over the next years (and I think we are collectively ignoring the problem ?)"

If feel like you are denying the level of denialism the topic gets which to me is a much bigger concern that people being overly alarmist. I am not sure that level of denialism is the fault of fear-mongerers rather than the fact that most people want to bury their head in the sand, don't change anything to their way of life and carry on business as usual.

> The world is getting greener by the day - but these things take time. We're just not ready to have a 100% renewable system yet, but one day we will be there. The incentives to get there cannot be allowed to be fear - it must be logic. A greener future has to be the logical move.

Sure but that's putting under the rug a lot of important questions. Climate don't care whether we are trying. Most scientists say it's not going fast enough and that not going fast enough will put us in big trouble. Another question is how much fossil fuel will be necessary for the transition, are we sure we are the spending the most of our fossil energy in order to make the switch ?

Re: The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

#39

Post by jl6 »

HPsquared wrote: post #29
postmodest wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are over, say, 25, then you know that the last 10 years have been _exceptional_ years for our climate, and that the time for normal non-sensational warnings was 40 years ago or 50 years ago. Look at a graph of CO2 emissions and you realize that we are in a place where what was alarming in the 80's was the result of only _half_ of the CO2 pumped into the atmosphere since 1900 ( https://ourworldindata.org/co2-em…

It's slowing down at least.

The rate of increase in emissions is slowing down. Which means emissions are still increasing.

Re: The ozone hole above Antarctica has grown to three times the size of Brazil

#40

Post by developer93 »

doublerabbit wrote: post #5
6DM wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lower in the article explains why: > Yet despite experiencing large seasonal growth this year, the ozone hole is still decreasing in size overall. "Based on the Montreal Protocol and the decrease of anthropogenic ozone-depleting substances, scientists currently predict that the global ozone layer will reach its normal state again by around 2050," said Claus Zehner, ESA's mission manager for Copernicus Sentinel-5P.

So if we can survive the next thirty years, we're good. I can barely look forward to the next five. Edit: Woah. Humor doesn't translate well on this site doesn't it? I'm not saying the world is ending. I'm just saying with the next five years it looks bloody bleak, at least for me, turning 40 doesn't look fun. With wars, environmental mess going on; the world looks very dystopian to the vision where it could be utopi…

I'm also turning 40, but I'd much rather be like that than a young person right now..
Post reply on HN