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September was the most anomalously hot month ever

scientificamerican.com

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Re: September was the most anomalously hot month ever

#81

Post by esarbe »

gottorf wrote: post #66
brookst wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A large portion of the US populace wants to maintain/increase fossil fuel usage just to stick it to their perceived enemies. Also not hopeful.

What about the portion of the US populace that wants to maintain/increase fossil fuel usage because they think it's the best option they have? Is that not a valid viewpoint?

I think it's an uneducated viewpoint that is supported by the deliberate misinformation of the oil and gas lobby.

There are alternatives, there have always been alternatives. Better ones, cheaper ones.

Re: September was the most anomalously hot month ever

#82

Post by karaterobot »

I think these sorts of headlines are intended to raise awareness of climate change, but I conjecture the effect they have for some (or many, or even most) people is to make them throw up their hands and say "well, what can I do about it?". I know that, after seeing so many of them, they've stopped shocking me. They just make me feel a little sad. I suspect in the future I'll be numb to them, and they'll have lost any supposed power to inspire action. While any individual instance of record temperatures is alarming, enough of them, one after another, creates a narrative of powerlessness or hopelessness that is redundant and unproductive.

Re: September was the most anomalously hot month ever

#83

Post by otikik »

staunton wrote: post #35
otikik wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can’t measure this on a monthly scale, it’s too slow of a process You can somewhat measure global warming on a monthly scale. Just graph the last 100 years in average monthly temperatures and you will see a graph going steadily up. So it will be with a longer scale. In that sense, global warming is a longer process, yes. The problem with that is not that "you can't measure it". It's that explaining it to a non-…

Has that kind of metaphor ever helped in a real case/conversation you know of? The metaphor illustrates how what you're saying might be true and helps understand what you mean. Somebody who disagrees usually understands what you mean by "it's getting warmer". They just don't believe it. At least that's my experience. Convincing someone in such matters is completely impossible unless there is a prior personal relation…

The reason this sometimes work is not because it objectively should. It's because it helps the other person relate.

It's way more difficult to convince someone of something if they already see you as "their ideological opposite". It's a chasm too wide to cross for most of us humans.

The "gaining weight" conversation is something that they understand, probably have experienced themselves, or have seen their spouse try. It's not something that can be perceived as coming from the "scientist caste" (this is a real term I have heard used). You are less of an opponent and more of a next-door-guy trying to explain something.

It's a bridge that you lay over the chasm. They still need to walk over it, though.

I'm sure there's some sports argument that can be laid out in a similar fashion.

Re: September was the most anomalously hot month ever

#84

Post by linuxftw »

ramesh31 wrote: post #64
zemvpferreira wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do need to urgently discuss the role of the first world towards massive third world calamities. I'm a global warming believer, but I'm starting to question whether the planet warming won't actually be posivite for a lot of first world economies. More solar power, less money spent on heating, less dependent on foreign resources etc etc etc. Meanwhile, poor countries will take the brunt of the disasters due to geogr…

>I'm a global warming believer, but I'm starting to question whether the planet warming won't actually be posivite for a lot of first world economies. It's not about whether it will be good or bad to live in a warmer climate. Maybe it would be better. But the rate of change is the danger. If we were slowly warming over the course of millenia, it'd be a different story. But 2C of warming over less than 100 years is so…

The geological record can't state that the pace of warming we're seeing hasn't happened before. And our real-time measured data prior to digital electronics is laughably imprecise.

Re: September was the most anomalously hot month ever

#85

Post by louwrentius »

A constant 18C-20C degrees in September here in The Netherlands is absolutely insane. Heck, it's now 18C in the first week of October and at this rate I believe Oktober may not dip below 10C and also set a new record.

And we go about our day as if nothing is happening.

Yet the people peaceful protesting against fossil fuel subsidy blocking a street (A12) are the crazy people and should be violently removed from the road.

This isn't going to end well because people will vote so they can cling to their comforts at the expense of others.

Re: September was the most anomalously hot month ever

#86

Post by oldpersonintx »

hotpotamus wrote: post #58
nologic01 wrote: post #50

> Two main factors are at play in driving temperatures to such extremes: their inexorable increase from burning fossil fuels and an El Niño event that is shaping up to be a strong one. It would be quite educational to attribute in more detail the impact of these two factors. The degree of "El Nino" influence is presumably known, and if its strength is not related with global warming in complicated and unknown ways it…

Perhaps those drifting into panic and depression are doing so because we are now clearly seeing undeniable effects and yet denial persists while CO2 emissions creep up seemingly inexorably?

Drifting into panic and depression...or not...is just signalling

Very concerned people who do not take action are equally to blame as those who don't care

Re: September was the most anomalously hot month ever

#87

Post by morkalork »

badcppdev wrote: post #32

https://www.defense.gov/News/Feature-Stories/story/Article/2... I think the Overton window needs to shift soon to include the idea that widespread government intervention will be required to avoid 800 million climate refugees

There will be widespread government intervention. The only question is what it's going to look like.

Re: September was the most anomalously hot month ever

#88

Post by badcppdev »

ramraj07 wrote: post #59
badcppdev wrote: post #32

https://www.defense.gov/News/Feature-Stories/story/Article/2... I think the Overton window needs to shift soon to include the idea that widespread government intervention will be required to avoid 800 million climate refugees

I don’t believe it’s possible to avoid anything anymore, Merely the scale will be determined at best. It’s not just going to be 800 million refugees. I suspect it’s going to be actual deaths in that range. And with no real intervention as is the case now, likely in the billions. Given how the whole world handled the pandemic I have no confidence it’ll unfurl any other way. A sobering thought that keeps me awake for a…

Looks like you were getting some down votes for talking about the almost worst case scenario. No rebuttals unfortunately

Re: September was the most anomalously hot month ever

#89

Post by Hamuko »

lm28469 wrote: post #36
badcppdev wrote: post #32

https://www.defense.gov/News/Feature-Stories/story/Article/2... I think the Overton window needs to shift soon to include the idea that widespread government intervention will be required to avoid 800 million climate refugees

> will be required to avoid 800 million climate refugees "to handle" or "to mitigate" it's way to late for "to avoid"

I get a feeling it'll be "handled" in the same manner that it's "handled" in Cyberpunk 2077 if that's the scale that we're talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UamAMzVT4YA

Re: September was the most anomalously hot month ever

#90

Post by m_fayer »

ramraj07 wrote: post #59
badcppdev wrote: post #32

https://www.defense.gov/News/Feature-Stories/story/Article/2... I think the Overton window needs to shift soon to include the idea that widespread government intervention will be required to avoid 800 million climate refugees

I don’t believe it’s possible to avoid anything anymore, Merely the scale will be determined at best. It’s not just going to be 800 million refugees. I suspect it’s going to be actual deaths in that range. And with no real intervention as is the case now, likely in the billions. Given how the whole world handled the pandemic I have no confidence it’ll unfurl any other way. A sobering thought that keeps me awake for a…

I think some time in the next decade there will be a “perfect storm” heat wave combined with a power failure, and millions will die in days. This will jerk the Overton window and popular sentiment in an unpredictable direction, and no one knows what the world will look like on the other side of that.
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