Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It • Hacker News Board

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#821

Post by unnouinceput » Tue, Oct 03, 2023, 1:20 AM UTC

zoogeny wrote: post #301

> Conversely, if you let these assholes exert their power over you, you dehumanize yourself in submission. I normally like strong opinions even when I disagree with them. It is usually refreshing to hear people share their true feelings in an unfiltered way. This, on the other hand, feels bitter. It seems to be coming from a place of hate. By all means, stand up for yourself and your ideals. Sometimes you have to mak…

>This, on the other hand, feels bitter. It seems to be coming from a place of hate.

Of course is bitter. Dude said it clearly. Was hired as WFH before COVID, had challenging work, enjoyed it and then some asshole higher up, one day, decided to RTO indiscriminately for everyone.

And I didn't felt any hate, just disappointment. He was disappointed that he had to resign. Hence his rant. I would rant too in same shoes.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#822

Post by paulcole » Tue, Oct 03, 2023, 1:21 AM UTC

fullshark wrote: post #810

paulcole wrote: post #786

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. As long as we’re also clear that this applies to anyone who wants to work at a fully remote company. And as long as we’re clear that there’s nothing wrong with this.

I don't follow, fully remote employees don't care how their coworkers are working by and large so your point is lost on me.

The issue you’re missing is that for many people who prefer office work is that they prefer in-office work with other people in that office, not being in an office while a bunch of people are remote.

The remote workers’ cry of “We can work at home and you can work in the office” or “I don’t care where you work” is forcing the in-office coworker to do something they don’t want to do — work in an office with people who aren’t there.

Getting the exact work environment you desire isn’t a guarantee at work. And again, this is absolutely fine. It’s fine to love remote work and it’s fine to hate it. It’s fine for a business to make everybody come into the office, it’s fine for a business to make everyone work at home, and it’s fine to go hybrid or whatever.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#823

Post by taway1874 » Tue, Oct 03, 2023, 1:25 AM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #390

x86x87 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not only about before pandemic remote workers. Once people enjoyed the flexibility they aren't going back.

I asked about WFH prior to the pandemic and was told 'oh it won't work for you, ask again when you're in a senior position; you'll never develop without peer-friendships and a senior worker a couple of desks away'. Then we were forced to WFH. Now, we're being told to do hybrid, but there's no peer friendships because it's hotdesking, and the senior personnel are no longer nearby (they're at home or on a different flo…

It's just stupid. How do these people get to such senior positions?

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#824

Post by bromuro » Tue, Oct 03, 2023, 1:29 AM UTC

Two9A wrote: post #3

This is one aspect of the RTO discussion that's sometimes missed: there are plenty of people in the tech sphere (myself included) who've been comfortably remote for much longer than those who were pushed into remote work by lockdowns and pandemic response. We're not about to give up a whole lifestyle we've built over (in some cases) decades, on the whim of whichever executive we happen to be serving under at the pres…

I work remotely since 2006. To me, working remotely is the best - if no the only - way to keep myself mentally and physically healthy.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#825

Post by CPLX » Tue, Oct 03, 2023, 1:33 AM UTC

Tainnor wrote: post #742

sdfghswe wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure thing buddy. Are we talking about an ultimatum not to send creepy as fuck text messages to female colleagues (...) Why would anyone make an ultimatum not to send creepy text messages to female colleagues, if they're not sending creepy text messages to female colleagues?

They were giving general examples of things where giving an ultimatum in the workplace makes sense and not explicitly addressing OP's workplace behaviour. I feel like you're the only person here bringing up that OP is a furry (you, and some other comment that is thankfully dead).

When I wrote that comment I had no idea the blog writer was a furry.

Now that I do however I am even more sure that his reasoning for not wanting to be in a public setting is even less worthy of generalization than I had originally thought.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#826

Post by SV_BubbleTime » Tue, Oct 03, 2023, 1:34 AM UTC

TrackerFF wrote: post #177

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #53

I’ll know this “counter argument” isn’t bullshit when people finally admit they know full well a large portion of people abuse WFH. Until I see honesty on this, I am uninterested. No one ever admits: - I basically work 20-30 hours a week! - They have no idea when I’m actually working. - I was going to quit but I’m going to let them just keep paying me. - I have at least one side job and I won’t be able to do it if I…

Tbh, if you only work half of the time while at home, you're probably not working much more while you're at work. You probably spend more time pretending to work while at work, but I'd be amazed if the net productivity is any different. That, at least to me, seems to be the big elephant in the room that no-one wants to address. Office workers are not productive 100% of the time, every single minute at work. I've work…

You are doing it now.

You aren’t using the real arguments of the other side in their most effective forms.

You are using your own version of their side and easily refuting it.

Admit the rampant abuse - and then discuss the topic. Until you do, it all just sounds like game to me.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#827

Post by SV_BubbleTime » Tue, Oct 03, 2023, 1:38 AM UTC

stalfosknight wrote: post #219

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #53

I’ll know this “counter argument” isn’t bullshit when people finally admit they know full well a large portion of people abuse WFH. Until I see honesty on this, I am uninterested. No one ever admits: - I basically work 20-30 hours a week! - They have no idea when I’m actually working. - I was going to quit but I’m going to let them just keep paying me. - I have at least one side job and I won’t be able to do it if I…

All's fair in love and capitalism. As long as employers have no problem with subjecting people to bullshit dehumanizing hiring processes, tone-deaf ultimatums, showering executives with disgusting bonuses while buying back stock and laying off workers, etc etc etc, then I don't see a problem with any of the above. I refuse to continue to normalize this idea that employers are allowed to be dicks and you the worker ju…

You’ll have to remind me on the virtues of socialism letting you work from home. I mean, I guess you are free to starve without a commute?

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#828

Post by dang » Tue, Oct 03, 2023, 2:04 AM UTC

jrsj wrote: post #613

[flagged]

"Please don't pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead."

"Please don't complain about tangential annoyances—e.g. article or website formats, name collisions, or back-button breakage. They're too common to be interesting."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#829

Post by ehsankia » Tue, Oct 03, 2023, 2:07 AM UTC

aidenn0 wrote: post #418

ehsankia wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why both sides are getting screwed. Remote people are forced to come in, and on the other place, at many companies, people who do want to come to the office every single day are forced to hot swap desks. Just let people do what they find the most productive and let their productivity speak for itself. If you can't properly measure productivity, then that's the issue you should focus on.

Oh, I am very in favor of "everyone should have their own desk, preferably with walls and a door," and I wonder how many of the people who like WFH are because they didn't have that in the office. I really don't get the whole open office idea; I thought it was a cost-saving thing, but where I work they converted a large conference room into small offices and the per-office cost wasn't that bad. If you're really penny…

It depends. If someone is only coming in 1-2 days a week, then I'm fine with them not having a dedicated desk. It does feel wasteful to give every single person a whole desk or even office if they're gonna just use it one day a week. But if someone comes in 4-5 days, they definitely deserve their own dedicated desk.

The issue is that they try to treat everyone exactly the same. I don't understand why it's so hard to have 2-3 different modalities, and let people pick whichever works best for them.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#830

Post by ramraj07 » Tue, Oct 03, 2023, 2:10 AM UTC

tfehring wrote: post #325

ramraj07 wrote: post #34

If I start a company tomorrow, this is what I would want to do: 1. Hire within a general metropolitan area (2 hour commute max). 2. WFH for 28 days a month. 3. 2 days a month the entire org convenes in a ballroom or something and works together, have some progress reports, happy hours and hackathons. In this model, everyone’s remote most of the time. Yet everyone gets FaceTime with each other IrL. Seed ideas and brai…

This is very close to what I’d do, but with the addition of enough office space for anyone who wants it, and less frequent “required” gatherings rather than once a month. It’s really counterintuitive, as suggested by all the other replies so far, but I really think it’s the best setup: 1. Individuals and teams can work in whatever way is most productive for them. 2. On a day to day basis, everyone who’s in the office…

Thanks, the most constructive feedback I have gotten. Will keep all in mind!