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Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

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Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#51

Post by some_furry »

ramraj07 wrote: post #34

If I start a company tomorrow, this is what I would want to do: 1. Hire within a general metropolitan area (2 hour commute max). 2. WFH for 28 days a month. 3. 2 days a month the entire org convenes in a ballroom or something and works together, have some progress reports, happy hours and hackathons. In this model, everyone’s remote most of the time. Yet everyone gets FaceTime with each other IrL. Seed ideas and brai…

That would work great for people that want to live in a single metro area.

As a remote worker, I'm perfectly happy travelling every so often for in-person meetings and offsites. That's not a problem for me.

There are no large tech companies within 30 minutes of where I live. I don't want to move away from my house or the people I share it with (whose jobs are not portable).

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#52

Post by [deleted] »

TerrifiedMouse wrote: post #11

There are so many “habits” left over from industrial work. On an assembly line everyone needed to be in sync but this generally isn’t true for most office work. You need to be present at the factory to do the work, hasn’t been true for office work for awhile now. Yet we still operate synchronously. Everyone commutes through traffic/crowded public transport and risk catching the latest novel virus, to arrive at work a…

[deleted]

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#53

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

I’ll know this “counter argument” isn’t bullshit when people finally admit they know full well a large portion of people abuse WFH.

Until I see honesty on this, I am uninterested.

No one ever admits:

- I basically work 20-30 hours a week!

- They have no idea when I’m actually working.

- I was going to quit but I’m going to let them just keep paying me.

- I have at least one side job and I won’t be able to do it if I need to go back in.

I know YOU would never do these things. But we all know they occur, frequently.

It’s not a discussion or well reasoned refutation if you are just going to pretend that the issues don’t exist.

EDIT: No. I do not accept “they don’t work in the office either” as a valid argument. For the obvious reasons that at least in the office there is at least a chance to see it. For less obvious reasons like it’s still a body there, and seeing people work around you might make some people want to work. We are pack animals.

All you are doing with the argument that they “don’t work anyway” is telling me they shouldn’t be allowed to WFH or even be employed in the first place. It’s not a good argument.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#54

Post by blastro »

grumblingdev wrote: post #31
TerrifiedMouse wrote: post #11

There are so many “habits” left over from industrial work. On an assembly line everyone needed to be in sync but this generally isn’t true for most office work. You need to be present at the factory to do the work, hasn’t been true for office work for awhile now. Yet we still operate synchronously. Everyone commutes through traffic/crowded public transport and risk catching the latest novel virus, to arrive at work a…

> an assembly line Now imagine working on an assembly line on your feet all day versus your office day job. The people on the assembly line would look at you like the most spoilt people in the world. I personally hated going into the office, but the morale effect is real. I think the main thing is people cannot be trusted to honestly tell you if they work better from the office. It's a nicer life working from home bu…

real for you

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#55

Post by Fyrezerk »

mysterydip wrote: post #28
mattlondon wrote: post #10

Its only bullshit if you want to work remote. I want to be in the office. Working remote is the most stressful thing I've ever done.

What makes it stressful? I haven't seen this take before so I'm really curious about this perspective.

I know several friends who prefer to be in the office because they need some amount of time away from their young kids. It's the equivalent of "them" time where they get an escape from child care for a few hours.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#56

Post by virtuous_sloth »

ramraj07 wrote: post #34

If I start a company tomorrow, this is what I would want to do: 1. Hire within a general metropolitan area (2 hour commute max). 2. WFH for 28 days a month. 3. 2 days a month the entire org convenes in a ballroom or something and works together, have some progress reports, happy hours and hackathons. In this model, everyone’s remote most of the time. Yet everyone gets FaceTime with each other IrL. Seed ideas and brai…

You'd require people to work 30 days per month?

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#57

Post by blitzar »

ramraj07 wrote: post #34

If I start a company tomorrow, this is what I would want to do: 1. Hire within a general metropolitan area (2 hour commute max). 2. WFH for 28 days a month. 3. 2 days a month the entire org convenes in a ballroom or something and works together, have some progress reports, happy hours and hackathons. In this model, everyone’s remote most of the time. Yet everyone gets FaceTime with each other IrL. Seed ideas and brai…

Offer a work location as well, give people the option to have somewhere to go to work if / when they want.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#58

Post by mertd »

grumblingdev wrote: post #20

Video conf still sucks. It's literally the same as 10 years ago. Does anyone have a workplace where it is really seamless, high resolution, and just works? Or is using any of these new technologies? Maybe VR will help... But not being in-person for collaboration/morale is miles apart. I wonder if employees would personally cover the cost of a one week meetup once per month if their other option was move city and offi…

> Does anyone have a workplace where it is really seamless, high resolution, and just works?

Google. It was good even before the pandemic. We used to video call each other between buildings 100 feet apart instead of walking over.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#59

Post by worthless-trash »

mysterydip wrote: post #28
mattlondon wrote: post #10

Its only bullshit if you want to work remote. I want to be in the office. Working remote is the most stressful thing I've ever done.

What makes it stressful? I haven't seen this take before so I'm really curious about this perspective.

Maybe the homelife sucks ?

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#60

Post by rwmj »

grumblingdev wrote: post #20

Video conf still sucks. It's literally the same as 10 years ago. Does anyone have a workplace where it is really seamless, high resolution, and just works? Or is using any of these new technologies? Maybe VR will help... But not being in-person for collaboration/morale is miles apart. I wonder if employees would personally cover the cost of a one week meetup once per month if their other option was move city and offi…

Better cameras and microphones definitely help, but trying to get your company to pay for them can be another matter entirely.
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