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Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

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Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#271

Post by kanbara »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #75
chme wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get you in principle, but the company should still be allowed to sell hardware with some default software installed, because if I had to search for someone on the internet that wrote software for my specific smart TV, washing machine or whatever this becomes much more painful. I would rather see a 'right to repair' extended to software bundled. Any device or software that can connect to a network or can be interfac…

Of course your hardware would come with software installed! That software would simply be written by a separate company. We already do this! HP didn't write Windows, but they sure as hell sell laptops with Windows preinstalled.

vendor sw (hp, samsung, htc, gateway, dell) is some of the worst sw i’ve ever experienced.

i want safari, mail, and messages tyvm

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#272

Post by abenga »

askonomm wrote: post #139
ta8903 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

KDEConnect lets you sync your phone keyboard, even with Windows. And Apple could let you sync your clipboard to non-iOS devices too, they just block arbitrary features unless you buy into their entire ecosystem.

I did mention without installing a program, and without any configuration.

Is the implicit "… not written by the original OS vendor" at the end of your sentence intentional? There is obviously a program and/or configuration, just done by Apple. Nothing precludes building such a system in other systems.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#273

Post by vetinari »

scarface_74 wrote: post #264
vetinari wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, they didn't, when Jobs said someone has stealing his code, he meant that someone did something similar. Like "stealing his ideas". Also in 90's, there was no applescript support on macos classic qt, and third party players like vlc didn't exist yet either (not that they ever ran on classic). I know, I was mac user back then and I remember.

I just notice you said AppleScript didn’t exist then. It was introduced in 1993.

I corrected myself; being introduced in 1993 does not mean it was supported by all the Apple utilities since start, at once.

Also, it is not an user friendly solution. Do you know, how it really worked? Mac users were sharing QT pro keys. Most had zero interest in the pro features, except full screen playback.

It took Apple almost two decades to fix this.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#274

Post by vetinari »

scarface_74 wrote: post #214
vetinari wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, they didn't, when Jobs said someone has stealing his code, he meant that someone did something similar. Like "stealing his ideas". Also in 90's, there was no applescript support on macos classic qt, and third party players like vlc didn't exist yet either (not that they ever ran on classic). I know, I was mac user back then and I remember.

No, Microsoft actually stole QuickTime code. https://thisdayintechhistory.com/12/06/apple-sues-over-quick... Someone doesn’t know their history… Also, the look and feel lawsuit happened before Jobs came back and within a few months after he came back, he settled all of the claims. Your memory is spotty

I see you don't know how presumption of innocence works. I'm not a fan of Microsoft, but the same applies to them as anyone else.

You can be sued for anything, whether true or not. In the court, it must be proven that you did what you are sued for. So it is either proven, or not, and then the court issues the verdict. If it is not, like in Microsoft's case, they are still innocent. It does not matter whether it was impossible to prove or Apple stopped pursing the case; the court said they are guilty. If you continue say they did it, it is a defamation.

Even without regarding the above, the case was really shaky. Microsoft using the same vendor through a chain (via Intel) as Apple does not mean they are "stealing". That vendor might learn something from working with them, but that does not imply what you said. Nevermind, that Video for Windows had somewhat different scope (video subsystem), than Quicktime (multimedia subsystem). For Apple, it was simply a negotiation card.

Look & feel lawsuit was literally the oh noes, they do similar thing as we do case.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#275

Post by PrimeMcFly »

scarface_74 wrote: post #267
PrimeMcFly wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I skimmed the review, it didn't match up with the models I had seen before, and seeing you basically flat out lie to overexaggerate some of the negative aspects made it easy to basically dismiss it and your reply. I'm not putting any more effort into replying to you, other than typing in the reply box. Your point is asinine IMO, and I'm not interested in doing research to support what I already know, to someone who w…

So which model did you have? You can’t find a review anywhere on the internet? You claim I’m the zealout. But every piece of third party evidence you dismiss? What exactly did I “lie” about? Were the quotes from the Verge inaccurate? What did I over exaggerate? You have presented nothing . No websites, no reviews, no model numbers. You said you “researched” your purchase before you bought the your laptop. What websit…

Yeah, I've already said I'm not bothering to put effort into any reply to you. Yet you keep replying.

You can find models that compete with Macbook air on the vendor homepages.It's truly ridiculous to think Your Mac is the top of the top tier laptops available when it comes to balancing performance and battery. Believe whatever you want to buddy.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#276

Post by kanbara »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #119
kanbara wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

terrible idea. people buy apple products precisely because of how integrated they are. this idealism and desire to force companies to support everything (as much as i want gaming on mac/linux and drivers for things supported) is the single most dangerous idea that would completely ruin the user experience for millions.

> people buy apple products People used to buy cocaine toothache drops and give them to children to get them to shut up. People used to send babies by post. Just because people like something doesn't mean it doesn't have terrible effects. [1] > single most dangerous idea I mean, sure after guns, drugs, superbugs, global nuclear war, climate change, super-plague produced by synthetic biology... 1 - https://www.irishti…

the second is in reference to technology and customer experience, don’t be obtuse.

comparing apple’s integrated approach to cocaine drops for kids tells me all i need to know about your bias; consumers like apple products, they are privacy focused more then any commercial competitor and their chips and OS are better than anything else precisely because of their integration.

and people want those devices.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#277

Post by donkeybeer »

scarface_74 wrote: post #245
donkeybeer wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even get the point of these hardcore Apple defenders tbh man. You are not Apple, and you only gain to benefit from if supposedly they have good hardware and software, it also becomes more open for you or others to find better uses for it. You only gain not lose from that. Here on an HN linked article I was reading how Asahi managed to find and fix some audio bug in a macbook model. When multiple people are wo…

So every single “open” standard seems to suck compared to the integrated solution.

What do you gain from it remaining closed? Why are you so defensive about the idea of Apple being forced to open it up? Are you an Apple employee or do you have Apple stocks or is there any other reason? You lose literally nothing and gain lots from them being opened up. I don't care about any "trouble" Apple has with it because I am not Apple. I am a person who thinks of his needs first, just as Apple is an entity that thinks of their needs first. They don't need your help for that. Just like Apple my needs come first, and my needs definitely think its more enjoyable to see Apple (and other hardware makers) opened up because it benefits me. I always advocate for and practice things that benefit me, I don't care if it benefits Apple, if it does, good for them, if it doesn't its not my problem either. And Apple thinks the same of you and me and all is customers.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#278

Post by askonomm »

michaelmrose wrote: post #223
askonomm wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, can also view email on both phone and computer since forever ago - this is not even remotely similar to the shared clipboard of an iPhone and Mac, where you don't need to open any links or programs, install anything, configure anything - you just copy on phone/computer and then instantly are able to paste on phone/computer.

Have you ever wanted to copy anything from A->B that wasn't a 2fa text, a password, or a url? I certainly haven't. An android phone out of the box supports syncing tabs and passwords and provides a trivial way to copy 2FA codes with a built in feature.

So your argument is that because the things to copy are few, this feature doesn't matter? Or what? I fail to see how what you say contributes to the discussion of vertical integration in any way.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#279

Post by askonomm »

abenga wrote: post #268
scarface_74 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, just sign into both of them with your iCloud account

It obviously uses "a program, a hack, or configuration" (taking these from the original reply), just that they are written and pre-installed by Apple, and work seamlessly.

But from the end-user perspective it doesn't really. Nobody consciously sets the universal clipboard up, it comes as part of the cohesive whole of the Apple ecosystem. That's my point. Whether or not you want to dive deep into nerdland of if it's a program or not is besides the point, because for the end-user none of it matters, and that's why the vertical integration is nice.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#280

Post by suprjami »

jandrese wrote: post #2

More likely they would require companies to publish specs suitable for driver authors. I’ve always thought that companies treating their register configuration and I/O offsets as a trade secret is ridiculous.

Intel publish datasheets which describe their network interface cards to this level. It's fantastic, literally anybody can write a driver for an Intel NIC for any OS. You can also debug existing drivers when you get strange hardware issues, which is part of my job. No other networking vendor does this.
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