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Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

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Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#11

Post by gjsman-1000 »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #10

They don't necessarily have to: there's another, more comprehensive hammer they (or the US for that matter) could use: disallow vertical integration. Force hardware vendors to only sell hardware. If any software that can be changed remotely or by the user is off limits. Even firmware. Conversely, software vendors can only sell (or freely distribute) software. For vendors from abroad, don't go extra-territorial, just…

Sounds great - there’s just one problem: The desktop applications will still almost entirely be written for Windows. Or MacOS. Or Android.

So yay, you can buy a device… and 99% of people will install the same OS on it that it would have originally come with anyway. What’s the point here?

You’d have to say desktop apps must support all competing operating systems. But, hah, good luck with that.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#12

Post by mnd999 »

doikor wrote: post #9

Why should EU give preference to Linux over any other operating system? A much more EU "style" directive would be to force the companies to release enough of the specs so anyone can write the driver if they want to.

A much more EU style directive would be to force all operating systems to use the Linux 5.1 kernel.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#13

Post by askonomm »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #10

They don't necessarily have to: there's another, more comprehensive hammer they (or the US for that matter) could use: disallow vertical integration. Force hardware vendors to only sell hardware. If any software that can be changed remotely or by the user is off limits. Even firmware. Conversely, software vendors can only sell (or freely distribute) software. For vendors from abroad, don't go extra-territorial, just…

Well that world would suck immensely, with horrible integration between hardware and software like exists right now outside of the Apple world. Case in point: can you copy text on your phone, and paste in your computer (and vice versa), seamlessly as if it were the same device, without any configuration, hacks or programs needed? Things like that are amazing and I'd never give up. And I'm sure most people wouldn't want to give this up either just because Linux fanboys want to.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#14

Post by sylware »

If the hardware is not too insanely complex, until there is a maintained and properly written open source driver with public hardware programming documentation for some OS, a working linux driver will probably follow if this hardware has a pertinent meaning.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#15

Post by kanbara »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #10

They don't necessarily have to: there's another, more comprehensive hammer they (or the US for that matter) could use: disallow vertical integration. Force hardware vendors to only sell hardware. If any software that can be changed remotely or by the user is off limits. Even firmware. Conversely, software vendors can only sell (or freely distribute) software. For vendors from abroad, don't go extra-territorial, just…

terrible idea.

people buy apple products precisely because of how integrated they are. this idealism and desire to force companies to support everything (as much as i want gaming on mac/linux and drivers for things supported) is the single most dangerous idea that would completely ruin the user experience for millions.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#16

Post by adrian_b »

msm_ wrote: post #8
jandrese wrote: post #2

More likely they would require companies to publish specs suitable for driver authors. I’ve always thought that companies treating their register configuration and I/O offsets as a trade secret is ridiculous.

This. Linked post is a misconception of how EU actually work. They will never "hardcode" something like "linux drivers" into the law. But, in theory, they could write a law like "If you want to sell your device in the EU, you must publish a freely available technical spec with enough level of detail to write a functioning driver".

This would not even be something completely new.

It would just revert the market for computer peripherals and interfaces to how it was before the launch of MS Windows 95.

In the MS-DOS days everything was provided with detailed technical information, so you could write your own device drivers, for any operating system.

This ended in 1995, after which most hardware vendors stopped providing documentation and replaced it with MS Windows device drivers.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#17

Post by bpye »

jandrese wrote: post #2

More likely they would require companies to publish specs suitable for driver authors. I’ve always thought that companies treating their register configuration and I/O offsets as a trade secret is ridiculous.

This would be my expectation too. Though I’d think you’d need to go one further - hardware manuals AND a license to redistribute any necessary firmware binaries - the latter has been an issue with Nouveau for example.

In fact I think manuals are probably better in a lot of cases, OEM drivers are routinely terrible.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#18

Post by smoldesu »

askonomm wrote: post #13
loup-vaillant wrote: post #10

They don't necessarily have to: there's another, more comprehensive hammer they (or the US for that matter) could use: disallow vertical integration. Force hardware vendors to only sell hardware. If any software that can be changed remotely or by the user is off limits. Even firmware. Conversely, software vendors can only sell (or freely distribute) software. For vendors from abroad, don't go extra-territorial, just…

Well that world would suck immensely, with horrible integration between hardware and software like exists right now outside of the Apple world. Case in point: can you copy text on your phone, and paste in your computer (and vice versa), seamlessly as if it were the same device, without any configuration, hacks or programs needed? Things like that are amazing and I'd never give up. And I'm sure most people wouldn't wa…

> Case in point: can you copy text on your phone, and paste in your computer (and vice versa), seamlessly as if it were the same device, without any configuration, hacks or programs needed?

Circumstantially, yes. I am a KDE user though, on GNOME you do have to install a little app for it.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#19

Post by almatabata »

As others have pointed out why single out linux? Why not BSD? And second which linux? 4.14? 5.10? 6.2? Can they release it for linux 2.7 and call it a day afterwards? Supporting linux requires effort and money. How would you go about defining "reasonable effort" at supporting linux. If it breaks every month? every year? Enforcing this simply would turn out to become a nightmare. I think a better approach would look like what jandrese said in this thread. Force them to publish the specs so other companies or individuals can write open source drivers for the hardware.

Re: Could EU force hardware manufacturers to make working drivers for Linux?

#20

Post by oynqr »

askonomm wrote: post #13
loup-vaillant wrote: post #10

They don't necessarily have to: there's another, more comprehensive hammer they (or the US for that matter) could use: disallow vertical integration. Force hardware vendors to only sell hardware. If any software that can be changed remotely or by the user is off limits. Even firmware. Conversely, software vendors can only sell (or freely distribute) software. For vendors from abroad, don't go extra-territorial, just…

Well that world would suck immensely, with horrible integration between hardware and software like exists right now outside of the Apple world. Case in point: can you copy text on your phone, and paste in your computer (and vice versa), seamlessly as if it were the same device, without any configuration, hacks or programs needed? Things like that are amazing and I'd never give up. And I'm sure most people wouldn't wa…

With those preconditons, it doesn't even work on Apple devices.
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