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Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

thedrive.com

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Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#291

Post by danny_codes »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #46
bedobi wrote: post #34

Typical hackernews to have threads full of well meaning but ultimately misguided people saying ah we have some technological solution for this. The solution to this problem and every other problem caused by driving is not driving . Period. Not driving doesn't require any new technology, it just requires getting serious about alternatives to driving. (safe, separated bike ways, ebike and micromobility subsidies, rail,…

In other words: you're proposing to replace a set of possible, if difficult, technological solutions, with an near-impossible social solution. I'd call that misguided. Technological solutions tend to be discussed because they can be implemented. Social solutions may work better, but only in imaginary la-la land where they can actually be put into practice. In the real world, you can't " just " get people to not drive…

Of course we can. This is just a function of public policy.

Once our cities are re-built around walk/bike/transit, nobody is going to drive because it will be slower and less convenient. Just like it is in many cities around the world.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#292

Post by seadan83 »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #199
seadan83 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "we" clearly refers to society at large. (I suspect you read what you wanted to read) > Some people want to give up their cars, but you need everyone to want this, and they don’t This is moving the goal posts, nobody said everyone would want to make s transition and a requirement for this is a novel requirement only now introduced by your response. The example is akin to: 30 people are currently driving to s groc…

If we means society at large that requires a large portion of society if not more than a simple majority. That doesn’t exist for ending the use of automobiles. If the goal is the reduce the impact of automobiles, assumed from the thread being discussed, it’s not sufficient to help those who want to walk to walk to the grocery store. That’s a wonderful thing to do. But to reduce the impact of tire microplastics, the m…

You make some interesting points. I'm just trying to say this conversation thread is starting to talk past one another.

The 'we' was referring to the full population of people and basically stated a significant subset of that 'we' are willing to entertain (what are currently non-viable) solutions.

In other words, a problem exists for 100 people, and about 15 of them are willing to change their behavior that would help resolve the problem confronting the whole population (of 100 people).

Thus, the tit-for-tat, the OP is not suggesting a simple majority or any kind of majority is required to change their behavior, but is lamenting that a significant minority would change their behavior if they could, if they were enabled.

It's another way of saying, "those of us who would bike, or walk, or would bus - would do so if there were the slightest investment in those modes of transport to make them more viable".

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#293

Post by dilyevsky »

goalieca wrote: post #289
dilyevsky wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s probably mostly soot from the exhaust. I’m few blocks away to railroad (caltrain) and the windows facing the tracks have same black residue

Cars have fairly clean tailpipes these days. Older Diesel train engines still in service are disgusting. Construction vehicles are also pretty bad. The worst are large ocean going vessels burning bunker fuel in port which is illegal but very cheap.

Caltrain is diesel yes. They are replacing most with electric locomotives any year now

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#294

Post by yowlingcat »

jacobolus wrote: post #290
valianteffort wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where you live but everything is too far apart in American suburbs. How you would fix that without tearing it all down? And it's totally impractical for transporting a family around. Road tripping. Visiting far away family. Day at the lake or beach. Going camping. How do you convince people to give all of that up and just be content with whatever is 15min away.

Residents of American suburbs should have to pay for their full costs (infrastructure and maintenance, environmental, healthcare, services, ...), and if many people can't afford it, we should do a universal cash subsidy to every resident at the federal level to make up the difference so the transition is not so damaging, then let people decide if they really want to spend that whole amount on paying the actual costs…

I don't think it's broken. I think it's working as intended, but what it's optimizing for (people raising families) is perhaps not what you'd like for it to optimize for. Whether it's the right or wrong thing to optimize for is another conversation, but you may be surprised about what the collective political will of the US expresses. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a voting majority support for the idea that "American suburbs should have to pay for themselves."

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#295

Post by danny_codes »

userbinator wrote: post #280

"Yes, and?" It's time we just stopped caring and propagating this doomer scaremongering. Researchers looking for things will certainly find them, not necessarily because they're true, but because the null hypothesis doesn't bring any fame or fortune.

> Researchers looking for things will certainly find them, not necessarily because they're true, but because the null hypothesis doesn't bring any fame or fortune.

Are you saying that the researchers did faulty science? Or that you don't think microplastics are a problem?

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#296

Post by geysersam »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #29
kylebenzle wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked on this indirectly for 4 as as part of a pdh at Ohio State. We have had the solution to this problem since then but because natural rubber is slightly less profitable for the companies (it lasts too long and it too high quality) they use synthetic rubber. Tire dust is a problem becuase we WANT it to be a problem the solution is available but it is impossible to get funding because the tire companies don't wa…

> Thats it, that is how capitalism works But we don't live in a pure capitalistic society. Where is the govt's role in this? We pay 30-40% of our earnings for govt to do nothing while politicians become rich enabling this?

Seems the issue is that we don't vote on the right politicians. I refuse to believe there are no politicians who could get behind regulating businesses that refuse to adapt superior technology for the wrong reasons.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#297

Post by danny_codes »

pornel wrote: post #202

It’s weird they focus blame on passenger vehicles when trucks are so much heavier. Shift the freight to rail. No plastics to shed. Much more energy efficient. Can be fully electric.

Seriously. America has spent 80 years punting their infrastructure backwards. It's so embarrassing.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#298

Post by jdeibele »

eep_social wrote: post #174
nhumrich wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every car already has a way to track its own mileage without requiring GPS

Not all states require periodic inspections. Who will be checking those odometers? Is it the honor system or are we requiring a third party inspection?

In Oregon, there are two metro areas (Portland and Medford) where vehicles must be tested because of air pollution concerns. If you have a pre-2005 vehicle, I'm pretty sure they still use a measuring device to see how many pollutants your car generates. For model year 2005 and later, they hook their computer to your car's OBDII port and ask the car's computer how it's feeling. If the computer says "fine", they pass you and you can renew your registration.

Comparatively recently, they let mechanics and quick change oil places do the test for 2005 and later cars, giving them the option of charging a fee for it.

Oregon doesn't have vehicle safety inspections but it doesn't seem unreasonable that I could go to the official DEQ or DMV locations if I wanted to have my mileage inspected or maybe pay Jiffy Lube a bit extra because they're closer and their hours are more convenient.

The issue with that is that, though, is the same problem with taxes: many (most?) people aren't going to want to come up with the money to pay their mileage bill on the spot. There don't seem to be great answers for that.

Oregon has a pilot program where they put a device in your car and charge your credit card 1.9 cents per mile. https://www.myorego.org I'm sure that's what they'd like to have people do but I don't know how many people want to do that.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#299

Post by WalterBright »

high_priest wrote: post #285
whoknowsidont wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The positive externalities are even more enormous What do cars specifically positively provide? NOT including the positives that exists due to constructing infrastructure around that mode of transportation (artificial issues).

I am a person that has actively chosen to live without a car, despite work in automotive industry. Recently I wanted to take my vintage computer in a large crate, to a LAN meeting, but I would not be able to transport it without a car. Which forced me to order a taxi, which is a car for hire... I maybe could have been fine with a cargo bike, but it would not be satisyingly safe for me or the cargo. I have also heard…

[flagged]

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#300

Post by estebank »

valianteffort wrote: post #276
dlahoda wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EV bikes sure. price and weight of good EV bike dropped for last 5 years.

I don't know where you live but everything is too far apart in American suburbs. How you would fix that without tearing it all down? And it's totally impractical for transporting a family around. Road tripping. Visiting far away family. Day at the lake or beach. Going camping. How do you convince people to give all of that up and just be content with whatever is 15min away.

It is already a huge change if people who drive to thir offices didn't. People going camping or driving across the country aren't the problem. The Dutch do that as well, what they don't need to do is having to drive to go fetch milk or get to work. I have my dentist, grocery shop, restaurants, coffee shops, gym, bike shop, bank, park, hardware storeband bus stops within 15 minutes from my home, and all of those are in a residential neighborhood of an American city that to my Latin American sensibilities is too residential and spread around. The level of density needed to support "15 minute cities" is much lower than people think, but it means allowing there to be a bakery in the corner of your block within a residential neighborhood, and wrestling some space in the commons from inefficient forms of transportation in favour of more efficient ones.
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