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EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

appleinsider.com

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Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#931

Post by diogenes4 »

meindnoch wrote: post #840
diogenes4 wrote: post #826

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I don't know a single apple user that trusts apple but maybe I understand the concept differently than what you're implying. I love my iphone but that's in SPITE of apple's app store meddling, not because of that. The one exception I can think of is apple forcing twitter to keep the block functionality.

I trust Apple that if I subscribe to some paid app from the AppStore, the subscription can be cancelled anytime from a unified place. And Apple is forcing every shady company to adopt this system if they're offering subscriptions. Apple is forcing every shady company to disclose their tracking practices in the AppStore page of their app. Apple is forcing every shady company to provide good reason to the app review bo…

> Apple is forcing every shady company to disclose their tracking practices in the AppStore page of their app.

I mean, who gives a shit about awareness if they knowingly allow and even put resources towards enabling the tracking practices? The real boon would be forcing apps to not track. The fact that apple has gotten into selling ads and has not offered any functionality to the user controlling the internet access of particular apps should clue you in to the fact that you're getting fucked.

IMO, any alternative to the App Store can only strengthen apple's ecosystem. It would help if we had anti-trust legislation from this century but it's gonna take a lot more pain to get there.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#932

Post by dang »

sensanaty wrote: post #677

I tend to drop the bot/shill-detector part of my brain when I'm on HN, but whenever this topic crops up it's always a deluge of people with the same exact arguments saying "ohh my poor grandma will be coerced to install a Virus if we allow the owner of an iDevice any freedom whatsoever with hardware they bought!!!", and it's quite interesting to me the volume of comments with the exact same identical sentiment copy/p…

"Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#933

Post by quitit »

sensanaty wrote: post #677

I tend to drop the bot/shill-detector part of my brain when I'm on HN, but whenever this topic crops up it's always a deluge of people with the same exact arguments saying "ohh my poor grandma will be coerced to install a Virus if we allow the owner of an iDevice any freedom whatsoever with hardware they bought!!!", and it's quite interesting to me the volume of comments with the exact same identical sentiment copy/p…

People who disagree with you aren't shills - they might just be better informed about Malware statistics for example.

Quoting Apple and Nokia here:

>In the Android ecosystem, which has 50 times more malware than iOS, Nokia found that “the fact that Android applications can be downloaded from just about anywhere still represents a huge problem, as users are free to download apps from third-party app stores, where many of the applications, while functional, are Trojanized.

Source: Apple response citing the Nokia Threat Intelligence Report 2021

Nokia's 2023 report continues to point the finger at side loading being the main culprit behind Android's security woes:

>Android based devices are not inherently insecure. However, most smartphone malware is distributed as trojanized applications and since Android users can load application from just about anywhere, it’s much easier to trick them into installing applications that are infected with malware.

Source: Nokia Threat Intelligence Report 2023.

The same is experienced app repos for Jail-broken iOS devices.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#934

Post by TapWaterBandit »

kiratp wrote: post #929
TapWaterBandit wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I misunderstanding something or couldn't this just be made an optional setting? So users can lockdown the ability to install stuff if they want without overcoming various hurdles (maybe allow users to add customised message so if a user tries to do it a message will pop-up saying "Your Son/Daughter/whoever has said you should never disable this! Call them before doing this if someone has asked you to!"). I feel li…

You can't make this optional because they will be "taught" how to do it by the likes of Epic and Facebook. If its available people will be exploited. Has already happened: https://grahamcluley.com/android-security-fortnite/

Far too defeatist an attitude and a poor comparison that plays directly in companies that want walled-gardens hands.

Fortnite is an immensely popular game people search for to buy, whereas malware etc are almost by definition not something you think "gee whiz, might go buy that".

For the type of user being discussed it seems very simple to just say/have a setting of "only allow downloads from official app store" combined with the above. Although tbh this may all be rendered moot by AI LLM security style tools that can actively monitor and prevent users from doing stuff like this.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#935

Post by quitit »

seydor wrote: post #535
gigatexal wrote: post #523

I’m going to get pilloried for this but I like the rather draconian heavy handed way Apple keeps iOS locked down. It’s an appliance. I can trust it. If or when it gets opened up I’ll still stick to all the Apple or first party stores and things. That the iPhone is locked down and android is open is a feature and difference that consumers choose I think.

I dont agree with it at all, but you are right, people buy apple because need to trust somebody and they trust apple to keep making the right product for them. I don't even consider them superior but certainly trustworthy. Whatever changes apple implements would have to be easily revertable so people can go back to their golden prison.

I just don't really understand how allowing side loading on the platform will "fix" anything for consumers. The thinking seems entirely shallow, there isn't even any consideration for how these 3rd party stores will handle permission bits to protect the user's data.

It just seems something that would be really good for large companies like Spotify, and suck for small developers who will still need to rely on the App Store (and its commission) for visibility.

If the EU is so interested in which apps are available on iOS and eliminating any discriminatory practices, then the EU should legislate that the App Store approval process be made independent, heck the EU can run it themselves for the EU-states.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#936

Post by plandis »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #67

It is understandable why Apple wants to keep its current grip on iOS indefinitely. What I don't understand is why some people defend it, on this very forum! One commenter simultaneously defended gay marriages - "if you don't like gay marriages, don't get married to gays" - and defended the Apple's monopoly - "I like that there is only one Appstore and developers won't force me to sideload".

The issue I have is that apps I want to use currently are forced to adopt user positive features like how Apple handles subscriptions for apps (cancel any time, keep access until the existing subscription ends, cancel with a button click, etc…). If those apps all migrate away from the App Store so they can be more profit focused rather than user focused that could negatively effect me.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#937

Post by pg_1234 »

Vespasian wrote: post #527
hexis wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the biggest own-goals I've ever seen, really breathtaking how Apple botched this.

It's their hubris that lead to this. For some reasons companies always seem to believe that they have an upper hand over even the most powerful governmental structure. The very powerful people at the helm of Apple, Google and friends seem to forget that on the other side of the table there are powerful people as well and that those are quite similar to themselves. I believe a large contributing factors were the publi…

The EU is just doing to Apple what Apple does to everyone else.

They're saying "our App Store, our rules" ... where the App Store is the European market.

Apple should just be glad they don't take 30% off the top of all revenue as a condition of doing business.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#938

Post by tinus_hn »

smoldesu wrote: post #902
tinus_hn wrote: post #882

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not hard to believe someone would like to have their cake and eat it too. That doesn’t make it a reasonable demand though. The parents say the iPhone is what they want and that is because the iPhone is the phone you can’t accidentally break by installing alternative stores or apps or making the wrong settings. If Apple is forced to allow alternative stores, apps and settings that can break the system, the iPhone…

> If Apple is forced to allow alternative stores [...] the iPhone is no longer the phone they wanted. I just re-read it and couldn't find the part where they said that. Do you have a direct citation from the parent, or are you just floating a guess to support your opinion?

I read the comment as a generic statement about parents/old people, but as it refers to the parent comment it indeed makes little sense

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#939

Post by tinus_hn »

lostgame wrote: post #869
tinus_hn wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only there were phones that did exactly what you wanted

Yeah, I need a phone that can run Apple's GarageBand, (easily my most-used app; hundreds and hundreds of hours, and as I use Logic to create music at home and have for 15+ years, I can open up these iPhone-created files at home, establishing a workflow Ableton, for instance, has completely failed to replicate) - ideally uses iMessage so I can more easily communicate with my romantic partners who both use it; and can…

Let’s hope Apple never discontinues GarageBand lest your world collapses

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#940

Post by smcleod »

Tagbert wrote: post #71
mattnewton wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how? I can still install Firefox on desktop and android despite chrome’s dominance.

What is the user base of Firefox now? Single digits, last I hear. Chrome just keeps growing. Once iOS no longer uses WebKit as it’s base, the Chrome Blink will dominate.

It’s a lot larger than single digits. Those metrics are generated largely from tracking methods that Firefox blocks.
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