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EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

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Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#781

Post by westernpopular »

a-user-you-like wrote: post #746
anhner wrote: post #693

I remember years ago, when the EU first announced they would force Apple to switch to USB-C (well, not specifically Apple, but mandate a single cable type), there were droves of users on HN wailing that "what business does EU have to dictate which cable companies should use?" Yet here we are, everyone praising iPhone 15 for having a USB-C connector. I am looking forward to a couple of years down the line when we can…

[flagged]

Not men, businesses. And businesses can and should be coerced to serve the people.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#782

Post by chrisandchris »

nouveaux wrote: post #374
cmcaleer wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Pixel 5's security update end of life is in two weeks[0]. This is a phone that launched October 2020. My iPhone XS which I bought in 2018 just got the iOS 17 update and it's working pretty well. I want to be able to load whatever I want on my phone, but I also don't want to have to buy a new phone every couple years (or sooner! Looks like the 5a is still in production with security updates ending in 11 months) to…

Just spitballing here but it's possible that Android's openness is exactly why Google Pixel doesn't have better resources to have long term support. Some bean counters probably determined that Google doesn't make enough money to have teams supporting older Pixels. Samsung is taking a ton of profits from Pixel and the end result is piss poor Android support on Pixels. Guess what? Samsung doesn't care about long term A…

I'm not sure openness is the sole factor reducing support duration.

Windows 8 was released in 2012 and was supported untim 2023 and Microsoft for sure hat _a lot_ more platforms to support than Google / the Android Team.

I would argue that a closed system is a lot easier to support for a longer time (because one can mandate changes/depreciations). But for a open system, there must be another factor coming into play, may it be money or a simple "don't care".

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#784

Post by noirscape »

scotty79 wrote: post #734
noirscape wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Blink becomes a monopoly, and with it chromium, then Google can finally be "properly" hit with an antitrust case over Chrome. Especially when combined with the fact the big G can't keep directly funding Firefox to create a fake competition anymore under the new rules from the digital markets act. Google should've been hit with an antitrust case on Chrome years ago and their recent shenanigans with the topics api o…

> Google can finally be "properly" hit with an antitrust case over Chrome. What do you think google should do to avoid getting punished? What kind of action would you like to see from Google regarding the near monopoly of Chrome and Blink?

Break off Chrome into its own company that can serve it's own interests in making a good browser that serves the user (remember it's called the user agent because the browser must ultimately serve the user above all else) rather than serving Googles ad interests would be the right kind of action.

Right now, Chrome is compromised in terms of meaningful user privacy and user security because Googles bottom line largely relies on them not making those features as good as they can, while pretending they do. They can't just block 3rd party cookies to reduce tracking, it has to come with their Topics API so that Google can keep its ad monopoly (and that API consolidates Googles powers even more, especially considering the current implementation has Google playing literal gatekeeper over who can and can't use it instead of solving the privacy issue that the Topics API has).

For another example; WebManifest v3 was intended as a security update to the mess of v2... but it also conveniently takes a wrecking ball to adblockers (a major issue for Google the ad company) and guess what Google (the browser developer) is basically completely non-responsive about. They could respond to this and work out an actual solution, but the only thing they do is keep pushing back the permanent end date for V2 to avoid the bad PR.

Finally, as for avoiding punishment; Google could do all of the above and make an agreement (with legal consequences upon violation) that the Chrome team/subsidiary is wholly independent from the rest of Google when it comes to making executive decisions on where to take a browser. That way, they wouldn't have to break it off and can still take in the profits/fund the development of Chrome without it being compromised into serving Google.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#785

Post by maratc »

Moldoteck wrote: post #637
gigatexal wrote: post #523

I’m going to get pilloried for this but I like the rather draconian heavy handed way Apple keeps iOS locked down. It’s an appliance. I can trust it. If or when it gets opened up I’ll still stick to all the Apple or first party stores and things. That the iPhone is locked down and android is open is a feature and difference that consumers choose I think.

So you say iphone can offer alternate stores/sideload and still keep old behavior for users that want to stay in apple's ecosystem? So why lock down iphone then? Consumers that want it locked down, will keep their old routines...

No, as alternate stores will change the experience for everybody.

I download 0 new apps per year, but I use WhatsApp, Outlook, and Google Maps. Today, I get them all from one store - one password to remember, one credit card to have, one stupid set of "security questions" to forget the answers.

Tomorrow, Facebook AppStore will be the only place to get WhatsApp, Microsoft AppStore will be the only place to get Outlook, and Google AppStore will be the only place to get Google Maps, so I will need to download n app stores to get to where I am today. Create n accounts... accept n privacy policies... activate two-factor n times...

Yeah, no, thank you but no. I'm pretty happy with the AppStore as it is, thank you very much.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#786

Post by e12e »

runeks wrote: post #648

I support forcing open standards on tech giants. But I don’t support singling out a specific tech giant (in this case Apple), since it means Apple’s also-tech-giant competitors get an upper hand. For example, why not force Google to open up Chrome, to increase interoperability? I want to be able to export saved passwords from Chrome and import them into the macOS keychain, and vice versa. If the EU focuses on Apple a…

> For example, why not force Google to open up Chrome, to increase interoperability? I want to be able to export saved passwords from Chrome

You can?

https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/95606?hl=en&co=GENI...

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#787

Post by extraduder_ire »

noirscape wrote: post #660
faeriechangling wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you can only run Safari on iOS Apple mandating WebKit is the only thing holding v8 back from a total monopoly, while WebKit itself has no chance of being a monopoly in the forseeable future, so I doubt there's a good anti-competitive case to be made for forcing Apple to stop doing this. It would only accelerate the monopolisation of the browser market if this happened. It would be good for consumers in the short ter…

If Blink becomes a monopoly, and with it chromium, then Google can finally be "properly" hit with an antitrust case over Chrome. Especially when combined with the fact the big G can't keep directly funding Firefox to create a fake competition anymore under the new rules from the digital markets act. Google should've been hit with an antitrust case on Chrome years ago and their recent shenanigans with the topics api o…

> the big G can't keep directly funding Firefox to create a fake competition anymore under the new rules from the digital markets act.

Can't they still do that outside of the EU? Also, firefox funding is for their search business, so it's at least one level of indirection.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#788

Post by Kbelicius »

AltruisticGapHN wrote: post #767
idkwhoiam wrote: post #614

Hey EU, can you please ask BMW to open everything up to its rivals so that I can use Toyota's infotainment system instead of BMW's iDrive. I also want to be able to run PS games on XBox & vice versa without having to buy separate copies. And lastly, how about you open up your very own market to everyone by lifting protectionist taxes

That's exactly my sentiment. The main issue with this, it's like telling Apple how to do their job. Like , "you guys don't know how to build hardware and software that works really well together" It's well meaning but ultimately flawed. So long as humanity works "competitively" instead of sharing technology for the greater good - companies like Apple are the good guys, not the bad guys. They are trying to make the be…

So you are arguing that users should not be able to use hardware they own as they see fit. Are you serious?

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#789

Post by Scoring6931 »

numlock86 wrote: post #656
ankurdhama wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having more choice means that in case you need them you can use these other choices, it doesn't mean you will have to explain to someone about all these different choices and how they work, your current explanation of how to download apps will still be valid. Also, these new choices will not impact the sandbox implementation of core iOS.

> Having more choice means that in case you need them you can use these other choices, it doesn't mean you will have to explain to someone about all these different choices and how they work, So you want to hide them from the user? Are they really choices then anymore? Or how would the user know that these are choices they can, if they want, ignore? "Hey mom, yeah, don't worry, just scroll past most of the 27 choices…

Yes, that's perfectly reasonable.

Or does Windows show a choice screen for you to choose your Web browser of choice? Surely not, they want you to use Edge. Still, one can use another browser easily.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#790

Post by mbreese »

noirscape wrote: post #784
scotty79 wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google can finally be "properly" hit with an antitrust case over Chrome. What do you think google should do to avoid getting punished? What kind of action would you like to see from Google regarding the near monopoly of Chrome and Blink?

Break off Chrome into its own company that can serve it's own interests in making a good browser that serves the user (remember it's called the user agent because the browser must ultimately serve the user above all else) rather than serving Googles ad interests would be the right kind of action. Right now, Chrome is compromised in terms of meaningful user privacy and user security because Googles bottom line largely…

> Break off Chrome into its own company that can serve it's own interests in making a good browser that serves the user

That’s nice in theory, but historically, browser only companies haven’t been very successful in the market. No one wants to pay for a browser and monetizing one is a full of a big pool of dark patterns.

The most successful browser engines have always been those that we tied to another source of income, namely, the OS or search. Doesn’t Firefox still get the bulk of its funding from Google?

Even as a separate company, Chrome would be beholden to some external entity (likely Google search) for money, and that still carries with it the same risks as now, just formalized with contracts.

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